Rocky restart for hours rules

| July 01, 2013
Rolling truck on highway at dusk

Some observers predict new restrictions on the 34-hour restart requiring each restart to include two 1-5 a.m. periods could have unintended effects on early-morning highway and parking congestion.

The hours of service revisions the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration made final in late 2011 went into true effect Monday, July 1, affecting how drivers handle rests and restarts. The July 1 compliance date for new rules remained effective in the wake of a hearing about industry impacts conducted in the U.S. House of Representatives June 18 and which saw calls for FMCSA to delay implementation.

Following the hearing, a petition launched by Minnesota-based independent owner-operator Jason Haggard remains circulating calling on Congress to force FMCSA Administrator Anne Ferro to delay implementation of the hours changes, pending results of a MAP-21 highway-bill directed real-world effectiveness study under way. As of June 29, with two days remaining, the petition had almost 500 signatures and continued to grow.

Technically, the rule’s “effective date” was more than a year ago, notes FMCSA spokesman Duane Debruyne. “Carriers that have not been adhering to the Final Rule since Feb. 27, 2012, have been noncompliant,” he said. (For a quick-glance summary of the changes, see our chart at the bottom of this story and via this link.)

Also giving credence to a delay in enforcement, the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., has yet to decide in a case brought by the American Trucking Associations and joined by the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association that challenges new restrictions.

Some fleets already use the two hours of passenger-seat off-duty time for team drivers before or after at least eight hours in the sleeper berth, says Eric Witty, Qualcomm OmniTracs product manager. Witty knows because his customers have been helping the company update its electronic logging system to help carriers and drivers self-enforce and monitor the provision appropriately.

As with previous hours rewrites, more restrictive provisions are not being followed in large part yet, though some owner-operators have tried them out. Some – such as Waco, Texas-based independent Cody Blankenship – will see little change. His reefer-hauling round has him out on a typical four-to-five-day turn, then back home every weekend with plenty of time for a restart, including the two 1-5 a.m. rest periods required by the new rule.

“FMCSA might just be handing us a freight rate increase.” –owner-operator Jeff Clark at his blog, about what he sees as a need for a shift in view on regulated miles/hours-supply reductions throughout the industry

However, Blankenship worries about how the restart “is going to work with my ag trailer.” In certain seasons, he runs a hopper bottom hauling from farm fields. “There’s a lot of sitting around there” on-duty, he says. In such situations, drivers maxing out 70 on-duty hours in as few as five days could be stuck waiting there for more hours, given the new limitation of a single restart a week – measured from the beginning of the last one.

Missouri-based long-haul company driver Todd McCann, employed by a large dry van fleet he declines to name, blogs and podcasts routinely via his AboutTruckDriving.com site. Analyzing four of his restarts this spring, he concluded that only one would have been legal after July 1.

Drivers now will be able to legally log time while resting in a parked vehicle as off-duty -- this could include, FMCSA says, extended periods spent waiting at shipper/receiver facilities.

Time spent waiting in a parked truck and logged off-duty could include, FMCSA says, extended periods spent waiting at shipper/receiver facilities.

However, in the other three, McCann would have had no problems making his appointments without the restart. Generally, he says, “As long as I can keep running, I’ll keep running – I don’t want a 34-hour if I don’t have to take one. The only time I stop [for the restart] is if I might as well.”

For McCann, the problem of not having the option of the 34-hour restart in those instances is simply a matter of reduced flexibility down the line. “There would have been no benefit sitting for 34 hours straight,” he says.

If he’s grateful for anything in the new rules, it’s that FMCSA didn’t get rid of the option of splitting 10-hour sleeper-berth periods into one eight-hour and one two-hour period. But FMCSA has changed on-duty definitions in other ways that could prevent drivers and owner-operators tied up at shippers and receivers – or, as in Blankenship’s example, delayed by weather in ag operations – from maximizing their on-duty hours.

Drivers now will be able to legally log time spent resting in a parked vehicle as off-duty, so some of that detention time might not eat up on-duty hours; previously, only bunk time in the truck qualified as off-duty. These changes could make running solely on the recap – within the constantly revolving duty limits of 70 hours in eight days, or 60 in seven days for drivers with carriers who shut down totally at least one day of the week – a potentially more palatable proposition, without sacrificing a lot of drive time.

Some drivers have expressed worry over whether carriers would use the on-duty definition change as a reason to cut into driver detention pay – for those fortunate enough to receive it. In general, though, drivers throughout a variety of operations are taking a wait-and-see approach as to how the new rule ultimately affects their incomes.

It was possible, McCann points out, that with the current restart practices, a driver’s workweek could amount to up to 82 hours in a seven-day period if everything lined up just right; the new limitations will reduce that to a maximum 70. The calculation includes not only restart limitations but also the newly mandated 30-minute off-duty break after eight consecutive driving hours without an off-duty period of at least that length.

Wisconsin-based owner-operator Jeff Clark said he was hopeful a systemwide reduction in available hours would boost driver/carrier demand while also boosting rates. Clark, sharing comments he posted May 30 on his Freightliner Team Run Smart blog, urged an industry that often seems hell-bent on fighting any new revisions that limit hours to revise its way of thinking.

“While it is our natural inclination as an industry to maximize productivity, we may be lowering our rates by doing that,” he wrote. “Through the next rounds of [hours of service] changes, the government is reducing the supply of available driver miles. Instead of fighting against them, maybe we should sit back and think two or three steps ahead. FMCSA might just be handing us a freight rate increase.”

Click through the chart for a larger version.

Quick-glance 2013 hours changes chart

  • cadillac

    It’s much better now, even before these new provisions, than it was in 2002 and before. It got so bad, that we were going around the scale houses, just to not be harrassed. They would pull a driver around back and then start with their scare tactics and threats. They always seemed to pick the owner operator to harrass, because they figured we did’nt have the $$ to have that high $$ lawyer. I had a good friend get a ticket for $1500 in Hayward Ca., for being 1/2 hr over his log, and he had reservations at a motel 1/2 away. Not only that, they shut him down for a 24 hr period, so he lost the job he was doing out of S.F., which would have paid hin 25,000 and his wife & him wound up sitting in a motel for a week waiting for a job that paid about 1/2 that.
    They still want to do away with the owner operators !! I have reservations about about the survival of any small business surviving the harsh taxes of today.
    LET THEM TRUCKERS ROLL !!
    Cadillac

  • Dave Nichols

    i have come to realize that Cadillac is right. I f we can’t make a living in 70 hours, why not make a change? If shippers want our services, let them pay a fair price.

  • Jason Haggard

    Sure there Jeff Clark, you want to go ahead and lay down in “hopes” that they “might” in some way shape or form be “handing” us a freight rate increase. Did it happen any other time they changed HOS rules? Never, it’s time to come down from the cloud you are living on and that little fantasy.

    I suggest that you stick to promoting the “Run Smart” program and try to ride that all the way to the bank instead.

  • http://www.facebook.com/crazywhiteboyintennessee81 Cwbintennessee Michael Winton

    I do agree that once these new hours of service come into effect, rates will come up.

    It’ll be very interesting on how a customer will react to hearing ” Oh, i can’t deliver for another 30 mins. i have to take a break, sorry”.

    And all these companies that are running scared and forcing these ELOGS down the drivers’ throats will have a ”rude awakening” when they lose the business of that shipper when the shipper pays more to an Owner Operator who’ll deliver it on time.

    It’ll happen folks. Watch and see. It’s already started. I’m seeing rates increase just from the 72 hour blitz that went on this week.

    The more we’re forced to stop and rest, the more the demand will go up thus more money will be offered to get the load there. And if you’re lucky enough to be running paper logs at the time, then you’ll get the good paying loads.

    It’s gonna be ”feast or famine” by time everyone’s forced on these ELOGS though too. I hope that don’t happen, but it looks like it will… I hope the best for all the Owner Ops. Especially mine that i dispatch and take care of daily.

  • wishbone jones

    if these people were really about safety nothing on the road would go faster than 40mph. its the same old thing ,money.screw the government.

  • Todd Dills

    Would you call the 2005 rule changes (14-hour window, restrictions on sleeper splits) an hours supply reduction, Jason?

  • Jason Haggard

    I wouldn’t call them a reduction exactly but rather a restriction on the driver to best utilize available hours in a safe and efficient manner. The big problem that everyone seems to overlook in this issue is that there is only ONE person who is best suited to make the decision of when they can safely operate a commercial vehicle and that person is the current driver in that truck on that particular load and in those specific driving conditions.

    If a driver isn’t feeling quite up to par one afternoon and he or she decides to stop and take a nap for a couple of hours then he or she is effectively penalized for doing so because the remaining amount of their available hours has now been reduced due to the fact that they cannot split sleeper berth time in an efficient manner.

    The new HOS rules they want to put into effect once again, do not in fact address safety. If the FMCSA had paid attention to the data supplied to them then they would know that the vast majority of accidents actually happen within the first 2 hours of driving after starting a shift. They were also provided with sleep studies that showed that no two individuals have the same sleep pattern as well as pointing out that some individuals are actually well rested after sleeping 5-7 hours.

    We also have to look at the fact that the new 34 restart block of time is going to end up putting far more trucks on the roads during prime rush hour times in many metropolitan areas as drivers are coming off from their 34 restart.

    I will go on the record as saying that my personal opinion is that this new set of rules is not going to address safety, it unfortunately seems to have gained acceptance by rule-makers in order to appease safety groups who are looking for a direction to point a finger. As of this date the only thing the government has stated is that they estimate that 13% of crashes were caused due to driver fatigue, in this day and age there is no excuse for not having the data to base these decisions on facts and not on estimates. I ask anyone out there today, do you want your safety or the safety of you family and friends being based on the governments best guess?

  • Larry Hindman

    You really think that the O/O will be the ones to “bend” the rules? Who do you think the DOT will be targeting, ELOG or Paper? With the log programs on the market, The DOT has the best! Many Scale Houses have the tools to monitor your travel whether you are bypassed or just simply cross the scale. Some states already have the network to know how long it took your truck to get from one scale to another.. And lets not forget that if the officer gets a wild hair he can search your truck for evidence of log falsification (receipts).

    I am an O/O and I tend to drive long periods between stops. I have been questioned several times how did I drive for 6-8 hrs without a break, and what about your dog, he ask, can he go that long without a break? Point is, the DOT already knows what the “creative logging” is doing and is a large part of the reason why log rules are changing and ELOGs are becoming mandatory.

    Any increase in rates will be short lived and in many cases will be spent on fines and shut downs.

    So keep cheating the logs and driving 10+ over the speed limit chasing that pot of gold, and I will enjoy a nice living getting home alive and comfortable, spending my saving from doing it right!!

  • beerad1111

    Control, Control, Control. The government will totally control our lives one day. And they will control the amount of income we have leaving the general population dependent on the government to survive.

  • Teresa Douthit

    I am a fleet assistant and a safety and compliance officer. I spent 12 years driving a truck before this. I love this industry and I believe if everyone would just quit griping and understand that all that is being done is for the better good then these changes will be easier to swallow. It really seems that the biggest complainers are the ones that their only focus is their bank account. That is very sad when you have thousands of lives out there to worry about and you only see the dollar signs.
    My drivers have been adjusting to the rule changes just fine and I implement them here as soon as I hear about them rather than waiting to the last minute and causing a huge upheaval. They seem to respond well and are willing to work within the system.
    Happy Trucking
    Birdy

  • Pingback: Hours-of-service changes take effect July 1 | Commercial Carrier Journal

  • Glenn

    this chart is untrue i have read the rules and in them it says that anytime that a driver spends working for compensation at any job,That time needs to be logged as on-duty..so if you are on your 34 hour at home and the in-laws ask you to mow their lawn and pay you for that you nullify the 34 hour..

  • Glenn

    7
    Interstate Truck Driver’s Guide to Hours of Service
    What Is On-Duty Time?
    The 60-hour/7-day limit and 70-hour/8-day limit are based
    on how many hours you work over a period of days. Just what
    kind of work is included in on-duty time? It includes all time
    you are working or are required to be ready to work, for any
    employer. It includes the following activities:

    All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a
    motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting
    to be dispatched, unless you have been relieved from duty by
    the motor carrier;

    All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any truck,
    including fueling it and washing it at any time;

    All driving time, as defined in the term
    driving time
    ;

    All other time in or on a commercial motor vehicle other
    than: (i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except
    as otherwise provided in Section 397.5 of the Federal Motor
    Carrier Safety Regulations; (ii) Time spent resting in a
    sleeper-berth
    ; (iii) Up to 2 hours riding in the passenger
    seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway
    immediately before or after a period of at least 8 consecutive
    hours in the sleeper-berth (NOTE: Paragraphs (i) and (iii)
    of the definition of on-duty time in Section 395.2 became
    effective on February 27, 2012; paragraph (ii) has been in
    effect for many years);

    All time loading, unloading, supervising, or attending your
    truck; or handling paperwork for shipments;

    All time taking care of your truck when it is broken down;

    All time spent providing a breath, saliva, or urine sample
    for drug/alcohol testing, including travel to and from the
    collection site;

    All time spent doing any other work for a motor carrier,
    including giving or receiving training and driving a company
    car; and

    All time spent doing paid work for anyone who is not a motor
    carrier, such as a part-time job at a local restaurant.
    The bottom line is that on-duty time includes all time you are
    working for a motor carrier, whether paid or not, and all time
    you are doing paid work for anyone else.
    The definition of on-duty time is found in Section 395.2.

    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/hos/Interstate-Truck-Driver-Guide-to-HOS_508.pdf

  • lightning

    Hoping for a rate increase as a result of reduced driver availability is wishful thinking. Many fleets are hurting and will run marginal freight rather than wait for better freight. Many of us are tied into long term contracts with shippers that are not changing because of HOS changes.

    the real problem is that we are being outspent and out maneuvered politically by groups that have their interests at heart….other modes of transportation…..any one of us who has driven a truck 11 hours without stopping, as the current rules forced us to do, knows how “safe” that is, If you can sleep for 8 straight hours going down the road you are a better man than I,

    rules that effect our livelihood are being made by people who truly do not understand what it is like to operate a CMV in todays world, look in your wallet, if you are not an OOIDA member, an ATA member, or a member of your state trucking association….then you are part of the problem…..join today…lets try and organize, self regulate and help make sane and reasonable rules all around

  • EF McHenry

    Todd, you are very thorough in your work… probably the best of the current group of contributors with overdrive, in my opinion. However I want to say I believe you are mistaken on the issue of on-duty not driving as it concerns the new HOS definition change!

    In your piece you write:

    “Drivers now will be able to legally log time spent resting in a parked vehicle as off-duty, so some of that detention time won’t eat up on-duty hours; previously, only bunk time in the truck qualified as off-duty.”

    First to give you some benefit of doubt this aspect of the new rule change in off-duty not driving is ambiquous to say the least. However on closer inspection I found the following in DOT interpretation in their Q & A section on the HOS change as Revised on February 13, 2012 which to date has not been changed or revised again…

    Question#7 asks

    7) What other changes are there in the rule?
    *A Definitions of On-Duty Time

    The FMCSA is excluding from the definition of on-duty time(i) any time resting in a parked vehicle, or (ii) up to 2 hours in the passenger seat of a moving property-carrying CMV, immediately before or after 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth.

    (1) If a driver spends time waiting to be loaded
    or unloaded resting or conducting personal
    business, can the driver log it as off-duty?

    Ansr: The changes to the definition do not alter the
    existing parts of the definition that define, as
    on duty, “(5) All time loading or unloading a
    commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or
    assisting in the loading or unloading,
    attending a commercial motor vehicle being
    loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness
    to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or
    in giving or receiving receipts for shipments
    loaded or unloaded.” Unless a driver is
    released from all responsibility for the
    vehicle while waiting to be loaded or
    unloaded, time spent waiting is still
    considered on-duty time. REVISED ON
    FEBRUARY 13, 2012
    Another words when you refer back to the original FMCSA regulation handbook PART 395 HOURS OF SERVICE OF DRIVERS’ if you have the large book on page 512 under
    *395.2 Definitions
    On duty time has seven definitons and we can say for sure #5 as stated above has remained the same. The ambiguity for the redefintion of on-duty not driving time might concern parts of (1) which talk about time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;
    And it is my considered opinion this is where some of the biggest abuses of a drivers time takes place.
    If a driver finishes his or her day at 10pm 2200, goes into the sleeper berth at 2300 and becomes available for dispatch at, lets say 10am. But no dispatch is planned or given. The driver is up attending the vehicle. Then at 3pm or 1500 a dispatch is given to pickup a load at 1930 or 7:30pm and delivers at 8am the next morning say 500miles away from the shpr or pickup point. Are we now going to pretend this driver can or should be available to run such a load?? I ask again is this safe when you been up all day?? How many drivers have be coerced into this types of circumstances and have complied with these kinds of dispatches!! This to me is beyond harrassment! It is nothing but abuse! Are we going to redefine on-duty time to practically punish drivers like this?? Todd this is a very serious question!! This kind of thing happens a lot.
    I hope this is not where we are going…..

  • EF McHenry

    Unfortunately I missed your post here or I would have directly replied to you here. I posted a comment and I hope you can clear up a very serious concern I have with what you have written in your comment article. Thankyou in advance….!

  • EF McHenry

    I see no substance in anything you’ve said! And there’s nothing substantive in your comment. You talk about those that complain. Are you not yourself complaining about them? If you want to be a conformist, go ahead and do what you want. But I will be a contrarian. This is not rebellion without a cause! I see right and wrong and I don’t agree with the rules! The rules to me amount to a “War on Drivers.”
    You identify yourself as a safety/compliance officer.
    Well here’s a actual exchange that took place between a younger driver of a ATA motor carrier and someone who had your duties with whoever you are employed by….
    Safety mgr: Son, what’s your truck#?
    Driver: Gives his trk#
    Safety mgr: Have you been through a sleep study with us??
    Driver: No.
    Safety mgr: Well here’s what we are going to do, you’re overweight and high risk and I’m gonna put you on CPAP! And if that don’t work, I’m gonna take your job son, I’m gonna have to terminate you- I’m gonna fired you!
    Driver: ____you, ____ ____ you can’t take your job and shove it!!!
    This is what it is coming to….
    I Recall reading not too long ago in “The Trucker” Lyndon Finney’s EYE ON TRUCKING commenting on sleep apnea. Finney declares “give us a rule” “we need a rule not guidance.” Wow, give us a rule? This man was calling for more rules as though we don’t have enough!! In many of Finney’s writings there are overtones of a religious man with him. And that’s fine! I have no beef with religion!! However if this man were to recall the teaching in his good book, he might be surprised to find the similiar calls by those outside of Gods favor: “Give us a King” “Give us Barabbas” “Give us Law” etc,….WoW In the The Trucker Vol.24, No.13 July 1-14, 2011 in his EYE ON TRUCKING Lyndon Finney writes “FMCSA needs more funds, staff to keep rogue trucks, buses off the road.”
    Wow, this man wants more govt, bigger bureaucracy!! In my opinion based on what this man says he is nothing more than a spokes person for huge ATA truck corporations calling for more rules, regulation and govt bureacracy that all target the driver! Do you see these large carriers fighting the rules?? Absolutely NOT! In fact they are calling for em…. OOIDA is the only organization I know fighting em! And doing a hell of a job I might add!!
    The new rules are nothing but corporate driven regulations to shakeup the market place of trucking! CSA(transfer equip responsibility on the driver! undersafe stat it was owner responsibility)
    Sleep reg(attacks the driver)Cell ph regs(directed at the driver)In-cab cameras(directed at the driver)Hair follicle drug testing(directed at the driver)even EOBR/ELDs and HOS are really directed at the driver! Why? Because first of all it is a task on hand, in-cab device that affects the driver in too many ways to list….
    I’m very tired of people that cow down to power. As I’ve said in the past people go to the movies and are wowed by depictions of Gerard Butler as the fearless leader King Leonidas of the 300greeks in “300” standing and fighting hordes of persians in the hundreds of thousands… And yet the cow down, conform, comply, and blindly obey everything thrown at em. I’m sorry I cannot join the ranks of people like you!!!!

  • EF McHenry

    Unresolvable Problems with the HOS rules and EOBRs/ELDs as currently proposed with supporting document relief to ATA carriers!

    /What do the HOS rules and EOBRs/ELDs have in common with Social Security and Medicare??

    /Are there any alternatives to EOBRs/ELDs?

    /Answer: Unified Budgets!
    /Answer: Wa POE cameras, Oregon trip history scale crossing, and Northern Ca scale reciprocity with Or and Wa

    EOBRs/ELDs will never produce compliance and will not even lead to greater compliance either as currently proposed with support document relief projected to be granted to ATA carriers! Not even sure what greater compliance means but it’s something Bill Graves, president and chief executive officer of the ATA( American Trucking Association) regularly declares; EOBRs will lead to greater compliance. If you don’t think he says this just google his name and this quote and you’ll get lots of web hits:

    “Clearly, these devices lead to greater compliance with maximum driving limits, which is very good for the trucking industry as a whole and highway safety.”

    I’d like to ask Mr. Graves what improved compliance means. That is a very curious statement. I’m not so naive to think it means to help or assist drivers in logging correctly! What Mr. Graves has in mind has to do with the law, the legal adherance to the HOS rules! But that to me sounds “oxymoronic!” Maybe he’ll explain it sometime. But I doubt it! Even the word “compliance” itself, has corporate write to it! Under Regulatory Compliance wikipedia says:

    “Regulatory compliance describes the goal that corporations or public agencies aspire to achieve in their efforts to ensure that personnel are aware of and take steps to comply with relevant laws and regulations.”

    But then one has to ask, can someone be more or less in accord with the law? Is there a degree to which someone is in obedience to the law? There are certainly a number of different ways to violate a rule or law. But can the law be partially obeyed? It seems to me the law is a all or nothing proposition! But lets analyze this for a minute. Suppose a person can be more or less compliant, could there be alternate ways to be more or less compliant than the use of a potential device(EOBR/ELD) that could be used to harass, compel and or coerce?? I can think of one way right now! And Northern Ca, Oregon and Washington already utilize such methods of HOS enforcement!

    So to the first point why EOBRs or ELDs will never produce compliance.
    Fact:

    All the regulations in the HOS are based on time and what you are doing in that time! But the structure of the HOS rules and how they are written make all the difference in the world! The HOS rules were written as a unified budget of 70hrs when driving is conjoined to on-duty not driving. When there is no driving concerned, on-duty not driving could be unlimited in theory. Back to the unified 70hr budget; an analogy of this idea would be to the federal govts mandatory programs(i.e. SS&Medicare)and when politicians treat these programs as concurrent or unified with discretionary programs.(i.e. federal govt agencies) When politicians do this, they do this with a disregard to the intended purpose of their respective tax sources. So if politicians want to shore up shortfalls in the Federal income tax revenue which fund discretionary spending, they find a way to dupe the public into thinking cuts in SS&Medicare are necessary so they can get mandatory programs to run surpluses so the surplus money can be directed to be spent on discretionary programs, ironically like the DOT instead of their intended purpose of funding SS & Medicare. It’s a decades old scam and it seems to rear it’s ugly head during budgetary battles. It is this ability to use money for things not intended or for things the money wasn’t for, that is the same way the grand total of 70 available hrs ends up getting used wrongly. Don’t log line 4 properly and you are use hours for line 3. Why? Because the HOS rules with or without EOBRs/ELDs are structured to operate as the sum of a Unified Budget Of 70 weekly hrs where driving, or line 3 and on-duty not driving, or line 4 both consume available hrs from a unified budget of 70 at the start of the week and what remains throughout the work week.

    These concepts might help with understanding this better:

    a.)Line 3 & 4 as a Zero Sum
    b.)Line 3 & 4 as inversely related
    c.)Line 3 & 4 as proportionally related
    d.)Line 3 & 4 are sum of a two system relation

    Other ideas

    a.)The EOBR is Not A Punchcard or Punchclock!
    b.)If a EOBR can be falsified it is not compliant!
    c.)EOBR make falsifing line 4 easier than on a paper log(just punch a button and “Walla” line 4 has been altered).

    Proponents of EOBRs have made it all about line 3!! Ever noticed the ATA says nothing about the routine falsification of line 4? The ATA has a strong aversion to any notion of logging line 4 properly!! Why? Because they want on-duty not driving to be something negligible. If it’s negligible then it will be either irrelevant or unimportant. If it is irrelevant or unimportant it will not be worthy of consideration and or compensation! But this can’t be. Line 4 has legal relevance! This is what is driving support document relief. The purpose of retaining and using supporting documents to verify on-duty time is to differentiate between a stop to pickup or deliver from a stop to shop for supplies, shower, eat or take other forms of off-duty time! Sure EOBR can document stops… But the question is what kind of stop is it!! To do away with supporting document audits is to negate the whole idea of on-duty not driving and actually encourage the ongoing falsification of line 4! This is absolutely outrageous! What other ideas could there be to help avert this. Well one possible idea would be to bench-mark the hours. What would a non-unified budget of hrs look like? It wouldn’t be a practical idea but it might look light 50hrs driving/wk and 20hrs on-duty time/wk. Unfortunately the impracticality of something like that can be readily seem immediately! I have already commented on Ca, Or and Wa in old posts! And as I said my criticism is and always has been as currently proposed! I’m for the driver. And drivers shouldn’t have to work around the clock to make a living! I’ve already commented on the relationship between time and labor. The EOBR must not be made into a tool and instrument of the corportations! This I will fight to the end!
    Have a good day Floyd.

  • No Reform

    Yep you are right..MORE ruleson the way too!! MORE monitoring devices…are sold everyday to Cop Agencies..and trucking companies…legislation to FORCE the implementation of these devices..is Lobbied for in Washington my manufacturors of the Nifty devices..to PROBE the driver…expect MORE of this crap..not less

  • Mojo

    If the FMCSA would really look at it they could stop all the probs if they would stop it at the beginning. At all the CDL mills. Crack down and put a stop to all the unqualified drivers they are pushing out on the road. FMCSA’s job safety seems all they are doing is what all the antitruck groups want. Think its about time drivers file a discrimination lawsuit.They talk protect the public from the trucks whos protecting the trucks from the public…….

  • No Reform

    What a Horrible Job…and getting Worse if thats possible.

  • No Reform

    Obey! Comply! Conform!…..Its The Law…buckle up too!

  • No Reform

    Yea..they suggest that the driver might “rest in the sleeper” for that 30 minute break…and wake up 2hours later..LATE for his appointment..Yep that is sure what I want to do..take a snooze….

  • Brian Shanabrough

    Ever since Deregulation,Federal Gov’t officials top priority has been SAFETY….Spelled by GOV’T OFFICALS as R-E-V-E-N-U-E.

  • William McKelvie

    Please sign the petition. ATA, OOIDA, and HOUSE subcommittee have spoken against the new rules, and yet we still have drivers who want them? Totally illogical. We need rules that we can work with, that are about safety. Not rules developed in a college laboratory accomplished by a simulator. Real industry research was not done. While I agree we do need a rest break, I do not agree with 30 minutes straight, and I surely disagree with the two periods of 1am to 5am requirement and the one restart per week. I am not alone in this stance. And do you really believe the rates or company driver pay will go up? Isn’t that the same fish food touted as prime steak they said about the insistence that everyone go to the eobr systems? Driver pay would increase? Yeah that did not happen now did it?

  • Jason Haggard

    I would like to applaud Overdive and The Centerlane Show for being the ONLY types of media outlet in the industry to openly talk about the petition. Its a sad day when I think about all of the other outlets that have kept silent about it. It is also discouraging to think that it lacks the signatures of many “driver advocates” as they have been proclaimed, as it was put out there to help ALL drivers regardless of personal opinions of other people in the industry.

    The new HOS provide no true positive attributes in safety as most drivers already take a break during the day. The new mandatory break of 30 minutes in many cases will just be exploited by the broker, dispatcher and carriers to conduct business related phone calls, check-ins, etc.

    The required two blocks of time including 1am-5am for a valid 34 hour restart will only put more trucks onto the roads during peak morning rush hour periods and the restriction of one restart per week is also going to constrict efficient use of a drivers time as well. If a driver is driving for two days and then has a breakdown and spends two days in a motel waiting to get their truck back why should he or she not be allowed to use that period to acquire another restart as they have been off duty for a 48 hour period?

    People said before when they revised the HOS rules that it would mean a pay increase because we would be operating under stricter rules which would demand more money. Well it never happened and all we got was a stopwatch to operate under, here we are again with some people actually supporting the new HOS rules “hoping” this time it will mean a pay increase but so many people have not even looked at this fact.

    The new HOS will require more trucks to move the same amount of freight, which will also demand more qualified drivers to fill that need, so carriers will be paying out more for trucks and drivers to drive them. If and I do mean IF rates went up then the increase in rates would be absorbed into increased operating overhead by carriers so the bottom line pay would not change.

    This also brings me to one last point I will make, with more qualified drivers needed to fill open slots we will effectively be diluting the pool of qualified and experienced drivers in turn making the roads less safe, increasing the amount of freight damage claims and keeping labor rates low as entry level drivers flood the industry willing to work for minimal compensation.

  • martymarsh

    I totally agree with McHenry, it didn’t take you long to forget where you came from. The worst people in management to deal with are ex-drivers, not only do they think they know it all, but they are also the biggest company brown nosers.

  • martymarsh

    Do you know what is wrong with all this rule making besides they are trying to get more dollars, and it makes them liars about safety? You can’t regulate rest.

  • Pingback: Rocky restart for hours rules - Truckers Careers And Truckers Forum

  • No Reform

    Minimal Compensation is what they want for sure..any coniving way they can make that happen is what they will do….lie, cheat, swindle, misrepresent…Pilot is is Prime example…Wake Up.
    Cops too..representing their municipality will GOUGE the trucker without hesitation..and get a nice feather in his cap for every “trucker bust”…making everything “safe”……a trucker today is just a target of ABUSE.

  • Estes Trucking

    That happened to my husband at the Cottonwood scales in CA. Pulled him in, checked his log, said he was out of hours and parked him right there on the spot. My husband pointed out that he had 20 minutes left, just enough to get him to the TA in Redding where he would have been comfortable, had a meal and a shower. He showed the cop where he was wrong, didn’t matter. He was harassed some more, same cop wanted him to step outside and talk. My husband refused. Stayed in his truck till morning then filed a complaint against the cop. Didn’t amount to anything. Yes, my husband is an owner operator and this happens all the time. One time at the scales he was going to get a ticket for not having his insurance on him. My husband said wait a minute, I’ll go out to my truck and get it. The cop threatened him, my husband did not listen and went out and got his insurance. He would have gotten a ticket, the cop wanted to write him that fat ticket knowing he did have insurance, but didn’t care, just wanted to throw his power around. This is the crap truck drivers have to put up with everyday. Did you know everytime you get pulled over even if your not at fault, it goes on your CSA score?

  • Dave Nichols

    just pulled the last pin and called it quits. they can go get their own freight!

  • Thomas Blake

    I agree, If they truly want saftey, then give us back the split break and let it stop the 14 hour clock. Drivers are driving dazed because they are trying to get somewhere by a certainer time. They have the hours to do it . But only if they keep moving. other wise they will not make it. Hi Todd hope all is well with you

  • Gary Johns

    They need to pass a new law,,, all commercial trucking fines must be100% donated to a national charities

  • WSTruckin

    Over 45% of the sheeple are already are dependent on the government. They won’t stop until they have all the money and the power, that is where we are headed, unless people start to see and to stand up for what is right, but the sad thing is that no one will because there Is way too many people relying on our government for handouts. I have been driving for 23 years and I never thought I would see things get this bad.

  • gary d

    this happens all the time, I mean all the time……….your up at 0700 and don’t get dispatched til 1500 and then expected to drive all night 500 miles for a 0700 appointment..

  • Thomas Duncan

    Thanks again for passing still more regs that make a driver unsafe in the name of safety.when are these morons going to realize that people on the road are not factory workers.
    or robots!Only a driver knows when where and how long they need to work or sleep.keep narrowing the work window,Oh I forgot the truckers have already left!

  • cjmarley

    I don’t understand why that 30 minutes can’t be broken up in segments. I already stop every 2 hrs or so for bathroom break and to stretch my legs to get the blood flowing again (too many drivers don’t realize how much they risk their health by not doing that…think of the blood clots known to happen to people who are on long flights). But a forced 30 minutes is frustrating when I am already taking numerous short breaks throughout the day which already amount to more than the 30 minutes when put all together.

  • William McKelvie

    EXACTLY

  • JJMclure

    who in their right mind wants to work more than 11 hours…that’s slave labor

  • john

    these are the same dumb asses, that in the name of safety, can’t make up our minds for us !! They are so gung ho on SAFETY, yet with the last hos change, they created the most unsafe situation imaginable !! You start that 14 hr clock , and all you get are drivers in a hurry….REAL SAFE !! Now these butt wipes are out to make it so you can’t make a living !! ENOUGH ALREADY !! GET OUT OF TRUCKING YOU BEAURICRATIC ASSHOLES !! They had it right awhile ago when, if you were tired, you could pull over, take a nap, get up and go truckin ! I wonder how it is, that these people were given the power to Lord it over us to begin with !! Last time I read the constitution and the declaration of independence, I thought we had the RIGHT as AMERICANS , to live free from tyrannical reign ! How is it then that this branch of gov’t is allowed to DICTATE what free men are allowed to do and not do !! These pricks won’t be happy until we are blowing bubbles out of the stack and driving 40 mph with a swami turban wrapped around our head ! O , and thank you big trucking companies for your part in all this ! As you suck on the gov’t tit and perpetuate the problem by implementing these bullshit laws into your program as you ramrod these flunkies through your 3 week training course with your 6 month trainer. YOU WANT SAFETY, ADDRESS THAT !! It really saddens me to see how an honorable profession has been sliced up and dissected into a cesspool for immigrant trash and every undesirable that our wonderful gov’t wants to let into this country! You want safety ? How about making it MANDITORY to speak the language of AMERICA fluently before you are granted a cdl !! I say we go back to the day when you had to have someone vouch for you , and your character, and you had to go before a review board to get your operating authority !

  • SYDEWYNDER

    RIGHT ON BROTHER. WHAT HAPPEN TO THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE ,SELF DETERMINATION AND THE ABILITY TO EARN A LIVING AS YOU SEE FIT NOT SOME KNOW IT ALL WHO REALLY DOESN’T KNOW JACK.

  • Freddie Flintstone

    BS lunch counter story. CHP at Cottonwood are some of the best. Also insurance is shown when they input your DOT/MC number.

  • Hooty

    We need to stop doing business with CA. That will fix the problem real quick, just refuse to go, but this must be done by everyone!

  • Hooty

    Creative logging is nothing new. I drove for over 20 years and never got a single log ticket, not that they did not want to but it must look good and we were trained and picked up other tips on making it look textbook correct. First you must use a loose lief log book, any changes can be made when you shut down for the night. I pissed a few of them off looking back 10 days on every copy to see if anything was out of place, never found a thing. Paper logs are the way to go but you must be willing to shut down when you get too tired to sleep. You have got to know your limitations and stay within them.

  • Mike Smith

    Where is the button to click on to sign the petition?

  • j d express

    good for you cowboy ! I think I am right behind you. They have been shoving this crap down our throats for too long and like you I have had enough !!

  • j d express

    Do you hear yourself ? Do you actually think before you speak ? UHH, last time I looked, this was a job, and no one works for twizzles or m&ms ! It’s about $$$, I don’t stay gone for weeks on end so I can ride around and protect the “greater good” !! I am out here busting my butt to provide for my family, and stupid people like you, and your commie pinko thinking really infuriate me !!! Unlike you, I am in direct contact with my representative and senator telling them how to vote, like an AMERICAN !! AND THEN YOU HAVE THE GAUL TO SIT THERE AND SAY WE SHOULD SHUT UP AND TAKE IT !!! I’ve been in this industry for over 30 yrs. I’ve seen the gov’t take an honest and respected industry and turn it into a 3 ring circus, so don’t you sit behind your desk and tell me that I should quit whining and bend over and take what ever the feds deal out !! These are bullshit laws that stifle our ability to do a job, and they won’t stop until they have total control and run independents like me out of business ! And another thing , that is a pretty arrogant statement calling a truck driver “your” driver. These are grown hard working men and women and how dare you Lord your position over them !! If it weren’t for them, you couldn’t justify you existence… ever think on that you arrogant !@#%$@#. Why don’t you go burry your head in the sand in some other industry. We don’t need your stinking thinking in ours !!! It’s because of people like you that we have all these bs laws. Leave the trucking to the REAL truckers !! I feel sorry for anyone who has to sit under your regime !! comrade !

  • wisconsin trucker wife

    handing us a freight increase….is that guy serious?! this whole thing is going to mean less money…the brokers are the ones who will see the additional money, not the owner-operators.

  • Cwbintennessee Michael Winton

    Shoving more technology down our throats isn’t going to solve all the problems in this industry.

    The money isn’t right. 1.00 per mile is an unacceptable truckload rate and if you’re hauling those loads anytime at all, then you’re part of the problem. It’s not too hard to say no and keep looking.

    And as far as your argument with the recorders, Keep drinking that Kool-Aid and tow that ELOG ”Company line”. You’ll be out of a job if you don’t watch your back, bro.

    The biggest problem is that drivers like you just accept it and move on.

    Fight for your job!

    cuz if you don’t, a Mexican might be hauling your load on your back right now n for 1/10 of what you’re charging if you don’t watch it. Then you’ll go under.

OverdriveOnline.com strives to maintain an open forum for reader opinions. Click here to read our comment policy.