E-log mandate likely coming soon: White House clears rule, publication nearing

| March 12, 2014

After more than seven months in waiting, the proposed rule mandating Electronic Logging Devices has cleared the White House’s Office of Management and Budget, likely paving the way for a Supplemental Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to be published by the end of the month.

The rule will, according to the DOT, has four basic parts: (1) Requiring drivers now required to keep records of duty status to use an Electronic Logging Device (aka Electronic Onboard Recorders), (2) Detailing performance and design standards of the devices, (3) Noting supporting documents drivers will still need to carry and (4) Addressing driver harassment concerns — the portion (or lack thereof) that derailed the last ELD rule.

The Department of Transportation incidentally released its monthly report updating progress of rulemakings March 11, too, projecting the rule to clear OMB March 28 and be published April 9.

That timeline, however, appears to have been pushed up several weeks.

More information on the rule will be available once it’s published in the Federal Register.

  • ado

    Saudi arabia?

    Who mentioned genetics? Genes change all the time it does not take occupation/ invasion to change genes. And Iraq was invaded but the people there are still the same.

  • rydermike

    Perhaps because of a couple reasons 1) Military protocol 2) Nothing worth mating with in large scae numbers ;)

  • ado

    Borders may have changed, govts may have changed. Countried were occupied. But the egyptian people of way back are still egyptian. Same culture.
    The arabs of back in the day are still arabs. The mongols conquerred and occupied most of the known world. Dont matter there were no chinese people in arabia a few decades ago. People in Moscow dont speak german. Just because the germans were there and the russians fled does not mean after they retreaded the dust never settled.

  • ado

    Haha

  • MercenaryMan

    They called for public comment and you can be sure the ONLY people wanting these were BIG TRUCKING, every other person said in no uncertain terms, HE%% NO…But as we all know its not about safety its about driving costs up so little mom and pop will lose more money….whose gonna buy these things when you let the thirteen million Illegals start driving trucks, theyll be stealing them left and right….Time to retire…

  • MercenaryMan

    Ado, The Immigrants that want a Better life and are pouring into our country dont know what there VALUE is, theyll work for less, take less, settle for less, because they had nothing, now they live in America, work for Less and are happy, THAT IS THE PLAN…if you paid attention to World Sociao economics you would understand the Idea is to drive costs down, PROFITS UP…at any cost, People are tired of it, Illegal or just ignorant, the issue is PAY, WORTH, VALUE….If you want to work in this country, Understand whats at play, its a war on the middle class, a lowering of standards of living, if youll LIVE in your truck, when the rest of us want to go home on the weekend and see our Kids, what happens, YOU and more like you wind up LIVING in truck stops, under bridges and anywhere you can park your rig….accepting the low pay, the no benefits and reducing the standard of Living for EVERYONE…Immigrants yes were all Immigrants, But when the POOREST get a job in America, and accept 5 bucks an hour, when the wages are 15.00 an Hour, you think thats fine, American workers have already strived to raise wages, earn benefits and Insurance, we dont LIVE in our trucks per se….Its about a Lide in America, and a middle class, GET IT…

  • Time for a shutdown

    Because we are a bunch of pathetic flouridated spineless little children, and they know that they can do whatever they want? Just a guess.

  • Jason Haggard

    Recent studies already showed that the majority of O/O’s had more violations for HOS violations by percentage however it also showed that large carriers were more compliant with HOS regulations but they had MORE ACCIDENTS AND FATALITIES by percentage. So somebody needs to prove how ELD’s are going to have anything to do with safety. The big companies will go before congress and lie right along with Anne Ferro as long as the actual drivers don’t do anything about it.

  • Tomahawk Express

    I believe that this is an infringement on our civil rights as well. That is what big government is known and feared for. We are witnessing a president have his way with our constitution as we speak, and our congress has done NOTHING about it-other than talk. Vote people. VOTE. It’s time to flush the toilet. It’s the only tool we have.
    As far as the illegal comments below are concerned, I’m married to a resident alien, a Honduranian. They are some of the hardest working and good people I have ever met in my life.
    And not all of the Native Americans were murdered. I’m a Choctaw Indian from Louisiana. That probably doesn’t mean very much to most people here today, and it’s fine by me.
    As far as the 10 years spent in wars is concerned, we all have an opinion. I am of the one that believes there’s a time and a place to make a stand, irregardless of the consequences. You can’t talk your way out of some things, you have to DO something. So, back to paragraph 1. VOTE. Against the unaffordable health act, and everything else that you believe in your heart to be wrong.
    Not sorry,
    Sib

  • charles jost

    we { drivers } don’t vote, we are not heard as much as the outher groups. immigration laws are main stream, like abortion and religion. everyone asks about that when voting for a canadate . we need more mainstream atention

  • David S. McQueen

    The USA was formed by patriots who rejected the archaic idea of a monarchy. Our ancestors fought to be free from English rule (twice) and established the most successful form of government the world has ever known. England and many European countries still have royalty (so 18th century!) and look how well that’s worked for them.

  • ado

    I understand what you are trying to say 100%. But you are generalizing. I am a legal immigrant and a fleet owner. I dont even have a CDL. I have a good relationship with the people I work with and they are paid very well. When we came to this country my parents fought hard to have a better life. We understand the VALUE of a dollar. I never ever spent a dollar at a club. I dont drink I dont smoke and I never tried weed.

    What will get you somewhere else is skill. Skill and work ethic. Go to any recruiting agency and ask them to generalize. Does the american do better than the little mexican..? On average not even close.

    I dont generalize. I pay worth value. But out of 10 Americans hired in the past year or so. Evey one that ever sat down in any of my trucks wanted this and that. Didnt want to go here didnt want to go there. Wanted to go back home. Took more advances on the road and was broke all the time. Service was very bad rarely answered the phone and was late to deliveries all the time. It was totally normal for them to go a month without a paycheck. Honestly I never had that issue with a latino. They are hard working people who know how to work and save money and live without bitching around.

    I really feel like the only reason most of the younger drivers who are americans only drive because they know nothing else. Not one could ever tell me where he is located or in what state he was. And I had one who did not know how to figuer out his pay, miles * cpm. He did not know how to figure mpg.. Why?

    Why dont you stop generalizing and see why companies are driving their driver pay down? Not just in the trucking industry. Production especially. What do you expect the upper class to do? Of course they will whip the middle class below them. You can not blame corporate america for stubborn stupid young guys competing driving big rigs like you. After all the foreigners work harder statistically.

    Again I do agree 100% If I can run my fleet taking loads off the board in the bad season when my customers have little freight. Then the bigger companies can afford to pay people more than 32 cpm because I do and I take loads from the bigger companies. But at the same giving a high school drop out 1000-1300 a week for driving a truck not even knowing the states is unreal.

  • ado

    The most succssful form of government?

    Did you ever hear of switzerland?

    England has their Royalty. But they signed their power away to the parliament a long time ago. The brittish pound and the US dollar are no match.

    What do you consider the Saudi government then? Poverty there does not exist the government pays for schooling/ they even pay their international students. Have you ever met a saudi at a college campus and ask him how he pays for everything without having to work at McDonalds?

    Dont think of your govt too highly. You are starting to sound like a north korean.

  • g

    Yep you wont make any money with Elogs…only the Mega Fleets who have trailers being loaded at shippers can survive this crap. The driver/boy will sit at the “customer” burning up his avail hours. Everyone expected drivers to simply rip out pages and falsify logs to meet the situation. Nowadays they all act Surprized that drivers were running over hours????? Really a Joke. The Elog is like a Strait Jacket……good luck making money.

  • David S. McQueen

    Well, I think much more highly of my country (the USA) than I do of the muslim-dominated southeastern part of Europe where you come from. And you shouldn’t get personal on these boards.

  • ado

    So does every nationalist.
    Just proudly wave your american flag made in China. And proudly say you drop nukes for fun.

  • MercenaryMan

    Frankly SKILL isnt the issue, its whether a MAN is willing to work for less, accept less, and be happy, I wont live in my truck to keep my job, YOU will, I wont accept 12 cents a mile, you will, I strive to get the better paying freight, you dont….its about a standard of living, and when you lived in a box, under a bridge or in a tin shack, Living in a truck is a Mansion….Americans, of many Nationalitys deserve a Better living, a better standard when the money is there yet being passed only to the top, and the workers all live in the truck, under a bridge, what type of Standard will that be, Americans dont accept that, never will, yet you want to say Im spoiled, I make demands and wont drive anywhere…well continue down that path my friend when they have every kind of Govt mandated device up your a$$ and believe me those Illegals wont pass muster either….I believe most of the men on this page are well qualified, safe and hard working who dont want a Govt mandating how they do there job or accept the fact that the wages theyve ERNED by doing a good job will be lowered by people who accept living in a truck, driving at anytime, anywhere for any wage as a acceptable standard of living…..as for the American doing better then the Little Mexican, I personally have done pretty well, Ive worked hard for my Truck, and Family, and Ive built a nice House and Life….it doesnt and never will include living in my truck, for low wages, and no benefits, and accepting the Govts arm down my throat to satisfy some safety advocates whove never been in a truck.

  • jojo

    There are many industries here in the US that pay aliens at or above minimum wage because citizens do not want to do those jobs.
    I assume that if they paid these workers less than minimum wage it would throw up a red flag and these employers would get busted for hiring aliens.
    Co OTR Drivers (interstate Drivers) are exempt from the minimum wage. The corporate trucking companies are able to name their rate, take it or leave it. If the aliens are willing to work for less then it drives the rate down.
    Tie the Co OTR Drivers wages to the minimum wage so that ALL Co OTR Drivers working within our borders are paid by this standard.
    Now you have eliminated the possibility of big blue Mexico and big orange Mexico from operating here while paying Mexican Wages to Mexican Drivers.
    If a Co OTR Driver fresh out of school with Zero experience (citizen or alien)was paid the Federal minimum wage flat for all hours spent AT work (and this box puts them AT work 24/7) Freight Rates would have to go up to cover these increased wages.
    Cheap Freight RELIES on Cheap Labor!

    The gov and the corporate co’s will benefit from these boxes. Why Shouldn’t the Drivers!

  • ado

    Skill is a large factor. If you have a 25 year old guy who doesnt know how to calculate or does not even know states driving a CMV..? What understanding does that person have of life yet alone a family..?

    Its great to see people succeed in this business and build a house and family and not live in the truck. Great.
    But many drivers have been driving for years and years and they are still broke. They are the ones likely to run illegally. People like that with no understanding of life is the reason why we all have to deal with all this bs.. And its not going away.

    And of course just like you, I dont like E logs either.

  • jojo

    I will be shutting my truck down for about a week so that I can cast my Ballot. Election Day, an opportune time to send a message to the elected officials.
    Will enough trucks be shut down for the week of the elections for them to notice?

  • jojo

    The ATA wants these boxes and speed limiters in all trucks to level the playing field.
    Are You and I going to get THEIR price on fuel, equipment, parts, maintenance, ETC,ETC, ETC!!!
    I’m sorry that you find it time to throw in the towel. We need experienced voices, opinions and guidance to find a solution, spread the word and set an example.
    I could be Wrong, but I believe that we need to focus on Drivers Wages as a counter measure to the ATA’s attacks on the Drivers. Fight regulation with regulation! Enact legislation that accomplishes their safety goals by ensuring a living wage for the Drivers.
    Am I barking up the wrong tree?

  • Mike Smith

    All, restaurants, etc., have to do is pay them 1/2 min wage & then say they worked 20 hrs. rather than the 40 hrs they worked. And this is what they do. And they gladly take less money because its so much more than they get in Mexico.

  • haller

    Don’t believe everything you hear or read…

  • jojo

    Yes, I can see that happening within a small co’s payroll. Manipulate a time card, Cheat an employee.
    Back in the day, we threw trips away, we manipulated the book. However, my settlement-pay stub outlined the miles I was paid per the trips I ran. I could never understand why this info was not compared against my book. Maybe it was if you were one of the few being audited.
    I don’t think one can compare time card manipulation with log book manipulation.
    Without E-logs there is enough information out there for a half assed lawyer to build a case against a non-compliant Driver. To build this case requires research. Research cost money. The lawyer will be paid back, plus some, when he wins the case.
    The tax payers do not want to spend lots of money researching each Driver to take a few cheating drivers off the road. E-logs make it possible to audit many many drivers without leaving the office. This saves the tax payer money.
    I believe as you do, these boxes infringe upon all Drivers rights.
    Unless the co Driver is being paid for all time that they are under supervision doing as they are instructed these boxes are definitely an invasion.
    An OO should understand that running illegally is a big gamble that could land them in jail and cost them everything.
    When I leave the shipper and am on the road I log it Legal, Period.
    Letter of the law prescribes that I start my 14 when I move the truck from the lot to the dock. This box, once fully implemented and programmed LETTER OF THE LAW, will automatically start my 14 even though I only moved the truck 300 yards and then legally slept for 6hrs while being loaded. I’ve just lost 5.5 hrs. Time is Money.
    The co Drivers are complaining about lost income because of wait time at shippers and receivers.
    WHY stop there!
    If under dispatch the co Driver may have to sit for days before their load time! What about the 30min and 10hr break that they are told to take?
    My argument is that the Co OTR Driver is at work following direction the entire time they are any where USA attached to their assigned equipment. These boxes only enforce my position.
    Regardless of the format, paper or electronic, the daily log is a legal document that the IRS recognizes as proof that the Driver was AT work, Not AT Home.

  • Mike Smith

    [A huge percentage of jobs are now very small businesses. Many hire family & friends. As for trucking businesses that pay the min., in mileage pay, using aliens, can beat out an American having to live in our lifestyle. On the subject of truck businesses & drivers, they use equipment they don't pay keep up; a tow company told me that most of the trucks he hauls off are trucks driven So Cal Mexicans. He also said many don't even have insurance., and they don't pay the tow bill. This how they beat the rates down. Now days the CA gov protects illegal aliens in a number of ways, IE., Gov Brown just gave the Drivers Licenses ].

  • Mike Smith

    This is because they hire anyone with a face!

  • Mike Smith

    There’s truth in what you say. But I would add we are under attack by whats called our own gov., courts, the corporations, and businesses, and the media. A media controlled by all of the above. We have been brainwashed into pacifisity, “(becoming spineless children)” IE. Political Correctness I call Political Control; brainwashing. BS we are immersed in on a daily basis. I believe we will see elevated crime by white males. Then revolutionary war.

  • jojo

    I don’t doubt a thing that you say. What percentage of OTR Drivers are illegal aliens? How many Billions would it take to throw all of the millions of illegals and their families out? How many billions would then be spent in law suits? Who would then fill the undesirable jobs that these people would leave behind?
    How is eliminating 5 to 20 percent of the 3,000,000 Drivers going to raise the freight rates when there is no minimum wage governing The Co OTR Drivers wage?
    There is no minimum milage rate that I am aware of.
    Many states require that intrastate Drivers earn at least an equivalent to the minimum hourly rate if the miles ran or the tonnage hauled does not meet or exceed the minimum hourly rate for the amount of hours worked. And Yes, by falsifying a time card the co can get around these laws.
    Point is Mike, even if every Driver was on board with throwing the aliens out HOW would that improve our living conditions? Our Wages?
    From what I can tell, I have Zero support on improving Drivers Wages or on shutting for a week while we Drivers are exercising our right to vote.
    Do you think that the skinhead and KKK ideologies are prominent enough in todays society to authorize the billions of Dollars needed to remove these people.
    If so, fight that fight man.
    I am only trying to initiate a train of thought that would improve Drivers Wages!

  • Swede

    The ATA is going to get hit hard as well, they just haven’t studied it as well as they should have. They are going to start having hang-ups that they will be paying for like sitting in traffic or an accident or even loading and unloading. They will be paying through the nose when someones time runs out and has to pull over for 10 hours, even if they have a terminal and run a new driver out to the rig both drivers will have to be paid overtime. The driver coming on will lose driving time because his time started at the terminal and the driver getting off will have the same problem. So you see a lot of things haven’t been dealt with yet, if I had the time I could go on and on. I just hope this some sense!!!

  • jojo

    Really Mike, the aliens would be in favor of improving Drivers Wages. This would mean that they could go home to their families sooner and wealthier.
    Hell, I know several citizens who have retired and now live in Mexico. Their SS checks buy a lot more down there and the climate suits their age.

  • Swede

    One more thing I failed to extol, is the necessity of keeping OOIDA going strong, as they represent what is best for all of us!!!

  • jojo

    Oh, and they can afford to see the doctor and the dentist and their prescriptions are affordable.
    And they only need to know a little spanish because many of the idiots down there are bilingual. Hell, I’m only smart enough to speak english!

  • jojo

    I believe that the ATA is aware of all that you said. Because they are weakened by these boxes they need the rest of us to be weakened as well.
    Please let me point out that as far as I know, the drivers will not be paid overtime as most Co OTR Drivers are paid by the mile not the clock. This, I believe, is the issue that needs to be solved for the good of all Drivers.

  • jojo

    Thank You Sir, I totally agree that OOIDA needs a stronger voice in this. That means that OOIDA needs more members. All Drivers are Welcomed.

  • Mike Smith

    LAWSUITS!!!!!!!!! There must not be lawsuits when it comes to defending our families, our jobs, our resources, our country. The thought of lawsuits must be wiped out, by all means necessary. What you have mention are, “out-law”, laws that have been made up by the criminals, traitors, running our country. What we are reading in this article, and so much of what we are experiencing is tyranny:unlimited authority or use of power, or a government which exercises such power without any control or limits.

    Worse yet we experiencing a modern New Form of Genocide.

  • Mike Smith

    What difference does what you have said, on this comment, make.

    Sure the Mexicans would want more. Why would you say something like this. It doesn’t matter what they want.

    They would not have had to leave if our country had not been so corrupted.

  • Mike Smith

    What are all these silly anti- American points for. They have no real point. They are distractions from the original issues I brought out. Money being spent attacking American drivers when the gov should be attacking the Invading 3rd worlders.

  • Mike Smith

    “because citizens do not want to do those jobs”. Just another idiotic PHRASE spread by TV to support the Mexican Invasion.

    If an American won’t do the job then the job shouldn’t be there. We we have are people making up businesses to put Mexicans to work, IE., massive numbers of restaurants.

  • jojo

    Yeah Lawsuits, and lots of them!
    Wether you or I agree with the law does not change the fact that it is the law.
    Again I ask, how would YOU improve Drivers Wages.

  • Mike Smith

    As I suggested the lawsuits are ANTI-AMERICAN, and must be attacked in every way possible. Not excepted like you are doing. Talk it down, write congress, etc etc etc.

    Again I tell you STOP MEXICANS from driving in our country. Have you been to Fontana, CA/ So CA, ALL Mexicans driving.

    Now you tell us what would YOU do to IMPROVE Driver Wages??????

    Are you getting the clear line of my points yet.

  • jojo

    I have respected you and your opinions. I have not intentionally said anything for the purpose of insulting you. I have offered you another point of view for consideration, an opportunity for you to broaden your perspective.
    By the way, I’m 4th generation TEXAN! My people migrated here from Wales and once were spat upon as aliens!
    Again, What is your defensive plan against corporate America?

  • jojo

    I have posted in detail my plan only to have the moderators remove them. I therefor have to carefully word and phrase what I have to say or it is interpreted as me trying to pursue a personal agenda.
    I have gotten by with stating what I understand to be facts.
    The average annual wage of a Driver is between 36,500 and 38,000.
    7.25 X 24 = 174 a day = 1,218 a week = 52,200 for a 300 day wok year.
    Isn’t this what A BEGINNER with ZERO experience should be earning?
    Shouldn’t experience pay more?
    Base minimum hourly rate + equipment pay + hazmat – MVR = Co OTR Drivers hourly rate of pay.
    This formula should work with every type of trucking operation as a MINIMUM HOURLY RATE.
    Cheap Freight relies on Cheap Labor.
    There is a Price to Pay for safety and only the Drivers are paying that price in sub standard wages.
    Why are the companies allowed to set the pay standard?
    Why are interstate Drivers EXEMPT from the Federal Minimum Wage?
    Why do Drivers break the law to feed their family?
    What hourly paid Driver needs to race the clock to earn a living?

    Read my Profile and you will find many subtle suggestions as to what we should all be able to rally around. We should be able to agree on increased wages as that should allow us to be compliant.
    Fight legislation with legislation. Learn from your advisories and stop chasing their many diversions.
    Mike, You and I are brothers. We don’t agree on everything but we will fight for our family.

  • jojo

    Todays HS grad is expected to go to college. Soon the market will be flooded with college grads.
    One will need a college degree to work at Micky D’s.
    Do you think these edumacated young folk will clean toilets or work in meat packing plants or even drive trucks.
    What kind of life do you want for your kids/grandkids. Do you expect them to be maids and janitors? Are you going to be happier if they can afford to play golf or do you want them maintaining the course?
    There is more than one way to skin a cat and you know that.

  • jojo

    Counterpoint / The ATA has sided with the FMCSA and the public, you know, the people who believe that we make a bundle because we are unruly, unsafe outlaws, well, they believe that the gov is acting in their best interest.
    If ELD’s and speed limiters are necessary to bring those outlaws into line then the gov isn’t attacking these hoodlums, the gov is protecting the citizens with the help of those wonderful business people that form the ATA.

  • Mike Smith

    You start at the bottom and work your way up. And that’s that. Corporations should not “willy nilley”, make jobs that can NOT be filled by AMERICAN CITIZENS. Don’t build a Mcdonalds if you can’t staff it with American’s. THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE GOING ON NOW. We have businesses & corporations building businesses they KNOW they can staff with Mexicans because they have bought off the government to provide them with these massive numbers of low laborers; but worst of all they breed like rats, for free to them, but at great cost to our HEALTH CARE SYSTEM; which takes us to Obama Care. But not enough time to write about this here.

  • Mike Smith

    I meant no disrespect. I recognize your respect. It is dully noted. I would suggest you consider not through out your families alien status you sound like the Irish whom use it to support their support for chaos in America. There is way to much do go over to get into this issue.

    Your thoughts & ideas on “who will do the labor” are slightly skewed. I have considered your points of view, and passed on to this body what is happening & what has happened in this country.

    Corps have overthrown our gov. They control the media. They have told our gov how to make laws to protect illegal aliens so they can have massive numbers of cheap labor, and massive numbers of new consumers.

    I have told you/this body that businesses & corporations must not build businesses that they can NOT staff with AMERICAN CITIZENS.

    I have stated that Obama Care is used to pay for the 3rd worlders who are breeding in our country, NOW, for free, and at great cost to AMERICAN CITIZENS, high cost of heath care comes in large part from this. Hospitals have closed er’s because the Mexicans use them for medical.

    What is not clear about what I have stated? Please address each point I have gone over so I can understand what I’m seeing around me, and my country is wrong.

    As for your points. They are slightly convoluting what I have written. No disrespect meant.Others try to do this also.

  • jojo

    Thank You Mike, You now understand that I was playing the devils advocate.
    I totally agree that the problems you have addressed are of great concern! These immigration issues you speak about have been headline news for several years. The public is aware that there is a problem and there is a great deal of disagreement as to how to deal with this problem.
    We Drivers have more fires burning than we can deal with already. I narrow down these many issues and conclude that if we focused on increasing Co OTR Drivers Wages %90 percent of us would easily be able to deal with all of these other Trucking issues such as HOS, ELD’s, Speed Limiters, detention, tolls, increased fuel taxes, Driver turn over, ext,etc.
    All of these issues have one thing in common, Money in the pockets of the operators so that they can comply.
    We must live today if we are to fight Global, National and State issues tomorrow. I need money in my pocket to live today.
    The public is unaware of the issues we face and how they will be affected. They are very naive to believe that we are out here to get in their way. They have no problem slowing us down via ELD’s and Speed Limiters yet they complain that their Valentine Days flowers are a day late. After all it’s the Truck Drivers FAULT.
    Mike, I respect you for fighting for what you believe in. We Drivers need a central issue to focus on collectively. That in of itself is a daunting task.
    Linking Co OTR Wages to the minimum wage gives us an avenue through existing law to create a situation that would require freight rates to go up every time the minimum wage goes up.
    OF COURSE I UNDERSTAND that there will be negative aspects to this. We have to craft an outline of the details to realistically evaluate the pros and cons so that we can minimize or justify the negative aspects.

    Where do we meet to discuss ideas to improve Drivers Wages? Is it possible to use this Disqus site as a meeting place without involving or using Overdrive Magazines space?

  • Mike Smith

    I completely disagree with the notion that the illegal alien/Mexican Invasion has been adequately covered in headlines. I has not been. It has been buried. We are facing NEWS BLACK OUT on the Mexican Invasion. As for your concern about pay. Stop the Mexican Invasion first and rates will go up. Just look at So. CA, IE., Fontana, Riverside, San Berdo, Moreno Valley, Perris, CA. They have been taken over by Mexico, Mexican’s, etc..

    I get the feeling we are the only one’s talking. I want to inform the greater number of Citizens, not just one guy. I hope I have done some of that here. I am trying to bring this conversation between us to an end.

  • jojo

    Thank You for Your Time Mike.

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