In formal comments, OOIDA says e-log mandate not worth the cost, other trade groups supportive of rule

| June 30, 2014

big road elogTrucking trade groups held their formal public comments on the proposed federal electronic logging device mandate until the waning hours of the 90-day comment period, and each of the major ones fell as expected in terms of support or opposition: The Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association against, with the American Trucking Associations and Trucking Alliance for.

Related

ELD mandate: Independents’ final straw?

An Overdrive survey shows between 50 and 70 percent of respondents threatening to exit the industry over the electronic-log mandate -- the highest percentages are ...

The comment period ended June 26. 

OOIDA penned a nearly 50-page comment outlining its opposition the rule, saying there are no devices capable of performing as the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration described in its proposal, nor did the agency take enough steps to prevent harassment and coercion of drivers by carriers or others in the industry. 

OOIDA says electronic logging devices, contrary to what FMCSA has proposed in its rule, still rely on drivers to input manually changes of duty status, therefore not increasing hours of service compliance as intended, the group says.

Related

Logging device mandate could come in 2016, outlines hardware spec’s, harassment provisions

The rule addresses driver harassment protections, hardware specifications and hours of service-related supporting documents.

 

“While it is true that ELDs can measure an individual’s driving time, those devices cannot determine compliance with the HOS rules any better than paper logbooks. Nor can they determine whether a driver has had an opportunity to obtain restorative sleep in order to eliminate fatigue,” OOIDA writes. 

OOIDA also says the agency’s attempts in the rule to prevent driver harassment and coercion, which derailed the last EOBR mandate in court, again come up short. (Click here to read Overdrive‘s coverage of the rule’s harassment prevention measures.)

Per OOIDA’s comment: “FMCSA’s proposal on harassment is not carefully conceived and provides no effective tools to ensure against harassment. OOIDA is incredulous that FMCSA has put off for another day specific regulations dealing with coercion. The concepts of harassment and coercion are closely intertwined. The pressure put on motor carriers by shippers and receivers to follow unrealistic delivery schedules favors addressing the problems of harassment and coercion comprehensively in a single proceeding.” 

Related

More hours flexibility could ‘ease e-log angst’?

Overdrive Equipment Editor Jack Roberts asked the question in the title of a blog post on the CCJ website in which he discusses the hours ...

Lastly, OOIDA says the rule restricts Constitutional rights to movement “without honoring the individual’s due process rights.” Monitoring drivers movement and location with electronic devices without having first court proceedings OK’ing such tracking violates Constitutional protection, the group argues. 

“The proposed rule’s imposition of electronic monitoring is an unconstitutional deprivation of a driver’s freedom of movement. If adopted, the proposed rule would afford truck drivers fewer constitutional protections than the courts currently afford accused sex-offenders under federal law.”

ATA says it is supportive of the rule and disagrees with OOIDA’s note about correlations between ELD use and hours-of-service compliance, saying data shows drivers who use ELDs have better hours compliance. 

Related

OOIDA questions agency’s e-log study, says it ignores small carriers

OOIDA says the study lacks relevant data to prove its point that ELDs lower crash rates and lower preventable crash rates. OOIDA also contends that, ...

ATA wants a longer grandfather period for carriers who have already switched to older forms of electronic logging devices (like EOBRs) and that it wants the devices to better track vehicle location. Carriers should also be able to make edits to driver logs without driver approval, the group wrote. 

And the requirement for drivers and carriers to keep up to 10 supporting documents for each day the driver is on duty are “excessive and unnecessary,” ATA said in its comment, noting ELDs “all but eliminate” the need for carriers to keep any documents to back up logs. 

The Trucking Alliance —  a coalition of carriers and other industry stakeholders — said in its comment the ELD mandate will be the “most significant change since deregulation,” adding it will reduce compliance violations for carriers and help boost Compliance, Safety, Accountability rankings. 

Related

Analyst: E-logs drove 2013 carrier bankruptcy spike

2013 didn't follow the typical seasonality of trucking bankruptcies. When analyst Donald Broughton researched the situations of newly bankrupt carriers, a pattern of FMCSA audit, ...

Drivers too will have freer schedules, as ELDs “remove the tedious burden of filling out paper logbooks.” 

There’s no set timeline for when the agency will produce a final ELD mandate rule, but it could be several months, if not longer. Congress could attempt to include language in a transportation bill to set a deadline, however, as the Senate recently did in its DOT-funding bill, which would set a Jan. 30, 2015 deadline for the final rule. 

The effective date of the mandate would be two years after the publication of the final rule, so likely late 2016 or early 2017. 

  • Tom AndSheila Hurd

    Is anyone really concerned about constitutional rights? Criminals get rights everyone else gets all their rights removed in an attempt to make them criminals, another words, keep digging deeper till all drivers are the criminals that the government wants to believe they are because if you make enough rule sooner or later everyone will be a criminal

  • jake

    There is no way to prove driver is sleeping with E log. He might be playing games on Ipad or on laptop or watching tv. Use your heads. Stop the harassment!

  • Raveman

    The day this mandate comes out, this will effective put me out of business because I will be forced to charge all shippers and receivers for my detention time at a rate they won’t accept. So thank you FED’s, for putting me out of business AGAIN. You put me out of business with your so called STIMULUS which stimulated noting but the housing crash of 2008 which put me out of business then and now your at it again. Damn it, are you so STUPID that you can’t see the forest for the trees? You simply can’t force a human being to be programed as a machine. We sleep when we are are tired, and no machine can measure that unless the body is wired to the machine. Oh God, do you believe what I just said? I just gave them their next idea, hard wiring the human body when they climb into the truck. Come on you people, get real. Start by throwing out the 14 hour rule and returning to the split sleeper berth rule allowing the driver to sleep when they are tired, not forcing them to drive their 11 hours within a 14 hour period. Doesn’t work now and never will.

  • Thomas Duncan

    I have no faith in the comment thing.No one cares about how unsafe e logs are forcing people to not have flexibility in their days out here.No one cares how many highly experienced people have been pushed out already by these never ending controls.It is about a never ending supply of cheap labor and nothing else.IF THE PUBLIC REALLY KNEW WHAT THIS IS DOING TO SAFETY THEY WOULD NOT BE ON THE ROAD!!!!

  • Bruce Shearman

    when you become a truck driver you now lose all your rights.its time to start a strike .I never believed in strikes but if we don’t get off our behinds and stand together and start fighting back

  • Dean

    I have been a O/O for 17 years and a truck driver for 26 years. I am a safe and courteous driver. Since the talk of the ELD earlier this year looks like will come law. I have shifted everything I am done trucking when this becomes law.I will hold out till the last minute to leave trucking.I already started preparing for this trucking devastator.I just sold my $30,000 diesel pick up to get out from under the payments.My plan is to pay all my debt off including my house.I figure I have a little over 2 years to get all this done.As you may of guess I am part of the 70% that will take all my safe fine tuned trucking skills and go do something else. The People in D.C. have no clue what they have done to this country.I love the Freedom of trucking if you want to take that away from me I will go do something else.I will not be using the big money I make every week to buy more thing to help the economy like I have done for 26 years.Those days will be over for awhile so that I can keep my self out of way to much government control. I guarantee the next business I start will have a lot less government intervention. One thing I have learned trucking for this many years I can do just about anything I want because everything else is a heck of a lot easier then dealing with everyone involved in the trucking industry. Some of you other drivers might want to do the same before trucking kills you off. The stress in this business is getting way to high.

  • Ron

    Piss on ata .The only way owner operator’s and Ooida can stay in business is to stop screwing around and take into our own hands and shut the trucking industry down for a few days. This is the only way

  • Patty Cakes

    If you were hauling Illegal Aliens you would be permitted to drive 24 / 7 and likely get Gov’t Subsidized Fuel

  • Ron

    Drivers just read where you are going to hang it up . We are owner operator’s we don’t give up. Ooida is a owner operator’s Easy Way to shut down . I think it is time to forgot the stupid communist government and quit spending money on fighting. Put the money to shut down. Then we will have a great Ooida and a lot more members

  • Timothy L Barrett

    I’ve Been a Driver for 35 Yrs and No Accidents, 26 Yrs With No Tickets, I’ve Been an Owner-Operator since 1988, and Stopped Getting Tickets When I Stopped Working for a Company and Doing What I Was Told to do and Started Doing it the Way it Was Supposed to be Done, Last Year During Road Check I Had 3 Level 2 Inspections and 2 Level 1 Inspections and Passed ALL 5 With No Violations, Leave Me the Hell Alone and Let Me Do My Job, I Also Have a 100% on Time Pickup and Delivery Record, It’s Time Management Stupid, Not Regulations that Accomplish This!!!!!!!!

  • jojo

    11/4/14 is federal election day. That is 4 months away which gives plenty of time to get the word out. I would think that one could save enough to take the week of 10/31/14 thru 11/7/14 off.
    We Drivers and small co’s are being ignored in favor of the big boys with the deep pockets. I can’t help but to believe that we Drivers way out number the members of these safety groups that seem to get all of the attention.
    The FMCSA is and has been manipulating and ignoring the data it half ass collects as these edumacated morons know more about trucking than all of us combined. AFTERALL they have the SPREADSHEETS to Prove It!
    Drivers it’s your duty to VOTE and there is more than one way to do so.
    I’m shutting my truck down 10/31/14 thru 11/7/14 and I hope that you all will do the same.
    Pat Hockaday jojo859585@gmail.com

  • USMC 69-75

    E-log = Electronic monitoring home imprisonment!

  • Bob

    E-logs are nothing more than a form of government control. With all the laws being passed lately that put the control of our lives from the day we are born till the day we die, why is anyone surprised. The thing is,truck drivers pick up and deliver 24/7 in four time zones. The government and organizations like ATA don’t understand this, the professional driver does. The professional driver understands in order to get the needed rest,he must first develop proper time management skills. The driver knows that a sleep pattern is not only difficult at best but is almost impossible. Therefore rest must come when needed or during down time, TV and GAMES must take back shelf. How much rest does the driver need? That depends on the individual and since all individuals are different, the time needed for rest is different, and can’t be regulated. Older drivers like myself have adjusted to this and it works for us and we don’t drive tired. E-Logs don’t allow for the human factor, and is based on the one size fits all theory.
    Has it made safer, has it helped the drivers bottom line, has it changed dock times and has it made drivers rest? I have not seen where it has. In fact it has only made things worse.
    Let’s stop this insanity and get back control of our rights and freedoms and changed our status from criminal to contributing citizen.

  • Br0kensteal .

    This a problem today, we want to quit! We should not give up and run away. A day of national shut down once a week until the “mandate” a random day and a random time.
    We are not catle nor robots, a computer isnt going to force me to rest, my body is and my mind will set a time when it is appropriate. The shipper and receiver will keep their times promised and pay us for any detention.
    Money is the name of the game and time management is how you achieve this.
    Trucking was once freedom, that was a huge motivation for me. In guise of trucking accidents, they want to control us. Same with the undocumented voter they are shipping to our border and now they want to pass immigration, how convenient.
    Wake up people we are being traded for slave labor or the likes of.
    We must fight and stand together as truckers and Americans.

  • Jason McKennon

    I agree with a shut down but we need some one to organize it, also need SPECIFIC demands, shutting down and having a thousand hap hazard demamds will do nothing, I am a member of OOIDA and not an O/O because of what they stand for….I say OOIDA should organize it…….come on OOIDA do it for us MOST drivers want and the industry desperatly need it and you

  • tvl

    As long as the big carriers like jb swift punkin ect . Keep kississing goverment ass these stupid laws and rules will get worse. They want to put the owner operators and small fleets out of buisness.. if we had someone in dc that actually knew something about trucks we might not have some of these bs laws .

  • Fred

    Hey Bruce. Well count me in. I totally agree I don’t like strikes. But now we have to so they can live us alone.

  • Mind Games

    The sad part is the government officials and a quite a substantial number of drivers support these fascist policies or should I say schemes that allow our government to be used like a weapon to destroy the smaller trucking companies of course disguised as safety to mask their evil consciousness.
    The best thing any of us can do.is to leave those large carriers that are shoving drivers under the bus, case in point. The Wal-Mart dilemma and the just read between the lines “We will take full responsibility if our truck was found at fault” The truck not the driver and or the electronic log rules they claim to follow strictly but the truck?
    This industry and all its evil hitmen and henchmen are disgusting at best at worst the most evil thing unleashed upon God’s great country since the days of Adam and Eve.
    Pray for America and what’s left of her for her days are numbered because drivers and the rest of the nation are being lead to slaughter one soul at a time…

  • Mind Games

    By law OOIDA cannot call for a strike.

  • Black Rose

    The main ssue with a strike for truck drivers is the Patroit Act passed by Mr Bush which makes any strike organization by truckers an act or terrorism. It no longer able to happen like the Teamsters did back in the 70′s when crap happened before to this industry. I do agree that the industry as a whole needs to fight back to send a message but the drivers alone are behind the eight ball on this one.

  • Steve

    If OOIDA would organize a strike, they would be guilty of interferring with interstate commerce and as such would be shut down by the feds, and they are the ONLY VOICE we have in DC. Everyone else down there is for BIG TRUCKING.

  • guest

    another Harness and Straitjacket for truckers. Everyone and Everything MUST be observed by these jack asses who promote Hitler Like trucking…..Goose Stepping cops in those Prison Like weigh stations are another sign of what is to come for truckers. lol

  • guest

    The ELD is a done deal…these manufacturers Lobby and pay money to Politicians and like minded Mega Fleet owners conspire with them to drive small operators broke and make the manufacturers of this crap RICH. If it dont pass today..it WILL pass tomorrow…along with CAMERAS and lots of other DEVICES coming down the Pike that Rich People DEMAND to sell to truckers…….mostly it is about Money for Rich people….nothing at all to do with safety…..

  • Joe Ammons

    You can not ge tthese people{ truck drivers, small fleets} to stick together on anything, or agree on a point. Even OOIDA does not walk their talk.

  • Pingback: In formal comments, OOIDA says e-log mandate not worth the cost, other trade groups supportive of rule - Truck Trends

  • bob

    It is high the gov. leaves truckers alone or they might be the ones that will be calling some of us to bring the grocery list home but no way haul it , They are not thinking nothing but from their tail hole .we need to pray for the people that do not know nothing about what they doing than aman on the freaking moon looking for a plant to unload at…..hahahahahahaha

  • brad

    I do not believe anyone here should have to give up there right to choose what is right for there lanes of operation.If you do not pay out of your back pocket for this proposed mandate that gives away my right not be monitored like a criminal then you have no dog in this fight.How about anyone with less than five years of driving experience has to be with a trainer for those five years.Let’s just stomp on every bodies right to choose what is right for them.

  • Old Lady Trucker

    Yes, and if the general driving public truly had any idea that their way of life will soon end, as they know it now, there would be a run on all goods because soon those things will not be within their budgets. No idea, not even a clue. We Americans are a very creative group, it will not be ever the same again, but it will go on somehow.

  • David Grover

    Don’t you know the government is to big to stop anymore. They can put you in jail for anything at any time forever, even make you disappear. Wake up people, we did this to ourselves by being complacent for years. Can anyone remember when you could claim cigarettes on your income tax? I can. Now you pay more and more taxes on them and will get fined if you smoke in the wrong place even your house in some places now try claiming them on your income tax…. I had an accident several years ago, some a**hole cut in front of me at an exit and stopped. The speed limit was 65, I was doing 45 and the cop said I should only have been doing 25. So I got a ticket, my witnesses were told to get out of there or they would be ticketed and OOIDA raised my insurance rates. Fight that and see where it gets you. Wait till they tell you your too fat or too short or too AMERICAN to drive.

  • JPMINN

    I am an O/O also. Have been on my own for 18 yrs. Not leased to anyone. My situation is alot like Mr. Barrett. When I was a company driver I was constantly pushed and co-erced into operating outside hours of service and pretty much everything else. Since I have been on my own I run legal, do things right, maintain my equipment, etc. I am a one truck operation. Regulations, EOBRs, speed limiters had nothing to do with this. Its just plain good common business sense. To be profitable you have to have it. With all the regulations and rules today I still see crap happening that is supposed to be “not possible” under “currrent regulatory efforts”. The big companies are the ones pushing all this crap yet they are the ones who are in violation of most of it. Almost everyday I see drivers who can’t speak, read or write english. Yet here they are. Driving CMV’s. And guess what companies they work for???? And it seems like alot of the truck crashes in the news involve the big corporate companies who jumped on these “safety mandates” bangwagons right away in the beginning and yet their drivers are still running over people, running into people and killing them. So what good have these safety devices done?????????

  • Deadeyetrucker

    Sounds good to me man, now if we only had a forum to organize. It’s been along time comin’ … and yes i remember the second standoff it was pretty ugly.
    Everytime i begin to speak of it,people think i’m off my rocker but i still speak my piece.
    One good week of it and most of america will wake up to a bad reality.
    We need to organize, and unite for a cause of freedom…. for all citizens to witness

  • Mind Games

    That’s not 100% accurate, it says if the strike turns violent. Which means that they won’t come looking for you if you are at home drinking a beer.

  • ray

    try the keep truckin app. complies with mandate but still gives you le-way

  • Mind Games

    My seventh sense says that oil is beginning to become harder to find and so the president and the large trucking company owners made a deal to control the amounts that are burned. Mind you we cannot stop burning oil but we can slow it down by running the smaller guys out the system and allow the large fleets to take over and maintain high quality equipment.
    All of this just so we won’t see an immediate need to run into Russia and take their oil nor any other countries oil for that matter.
    This rapid push for alternative forms of transportation nor alternative forms of energy being rapidly forced upon America did not just spring up out of nowhere.
    Yes if you are an Owner Operator your days are numbered if you will not be able to afford the latest and greatest rig to run your operation, not that it is a natural order of things but a hard push by Obama to get this done so that him nor any other future president will need to use the football.
    What I say is the truth from a logical follow the dots conclusion.
    These boys must have made a deal with the man in the White House because stop and think about it, Why would anyone attempt to push out a badly needed service such as the owner operator that can get it there on time?
    Look Dart has natural gas powered trucks and ultra lightweight triailers (Of course off the backs of drivers who else?) And many more mega fleets have other ready to use tools to slow consumption of oil.
    In my view its easier to control a few and cheaper too than to deal with various owners of trucks.
    The dyes of the Owner Operator are just about over in the meantime we continue to bluffing our way throughout what little time we have left so we don’t alert countries such as Russia and or China.
    Sure the argument can be made that we have plenty in out own backyard but greedy people on Wall Street control that and so Obama has to work around them guys or with them take your choice and slow consumption while maintaining a poker face.
    Did I just pull the president’s pants down and or call his bluff? I’ll let you be the judge of that….

  • Jason Haggard

    Tedious burden of filling out paper logbooks?……….That must be code for “Too lazy to do simple math”

  • Rick Moore

    I saw we all drive entirely by the rules, including the speed limit and when thus smucks in Washington, D.C. dont have any toilet paper to wipe thier butts cause the driver is out of hours, they can use all the rediculous regulations they write to wipe em!!!!!

  • BigKahuna

    Ur a fokkin IDIOT

  • BigKahuna

    Ur right on the money. with the exception of your ignnorant ‘stimulus’ comment . . that problem was caused by the Wall-St=banksters, DUMBASS

  • Charles Griffith

    Here’s a thought since the Government wants to impose all these regulations onto us stating that it would be safer and keeps everything compliant. I would like to see every politician running for election and in the office be hooked up to a device, I like to call a bullshit detector that way if it goes off then we move on to the next , process of elimination…..since the government likes black boxes they’ll have there own….

  • esbond

    let me know when we are going to sit this on out lets park the riggs

  • jojo

    OOIDA has 150, 000 members out of approximately 3,000,000 Drivers. OOIDA is fighting for ALL Drivers through the courts and by lobbying our legislatures.
    We contributing members understand that OOIDA is making a big difference for all Drivers nationwide.
    Do I agree 100% with OOIDA? No, and I don’t have to because OOIDA Understands through its membership what needs to be done.
    UNDERSTAND this, OOIDA can not call a strike or a shut down! OOIDA can not in any way be associated with a strike or shut down! To do so would END OOIDA’s existence.
    It is my desire to set an Example, one Driver to another. As I understand it, I as an individual can share ideas and act in conjunction with other individuals. My “Go Home To Vote” campaign is an effort to get Drivers to fulfill their civic duties by communicating with and voting for trucking friendly legislatures.
    If by chance there are ZERO trucks on the road 11/4/14 then I believe a strong message would have been sent.
    I can’t worry about if other Drivers follow my lead. I’m not asking Drivers to do anything more than to vote.

  • jojo

    Deadeye, federal anti-trust laws concerning interstate commerce Prohibit organizations such as OOIDA to interfere with interstate commerce.
    Therefore I act as an individual. If you choose to follow my example and to share our intentions with others who may follow our lead we may actually be listened to.
    I have a web site that I hope will give Drivers a meeting place to discuss ideas. Problem is I don’t have much time to learn how to build the site. I have many ideas to share and to get opinions on and no place to meet and discuss these ideas.
    Priority is to share my “Go Home To Vote” platform in hopes that we Drivers will send a message to our legislatures as well as to ourselves.
    Presidential elections are only 2 years away.
    Pat Hockaday jojo859585@gmail.com

  • jojo

    Call OOIDA’s compliance team and ask them to explain the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890.

  • Andy

    You are dead on. I see our freedom in the last stages of being flushed away. More and more computers are telling us what to do, some day the computers will come head to head with each other and the country is going to shut down.

  • Shawn L Hubbard

    In my opinion, that’s the whole idea. You will be forced to charge for your time. How is that a bad thing?. And if you are doing it, you can be sure the big companies will be doing the same things. I don’t see how being paid for detention is a bad thing.

  • Pingback: @OOIDA says #e-log mandate not worth the cost, other trade groups supportive of rule | iTruckTV

  • Indie Trucker

    Owner operators have been spearheading electronic logging devices for a long time (Driver’s Daily Log comes to mind) The problem isn’t so much electronic logs as it is shipper/receiver issues. Burning up half your day loading, or all day unloading for free is a quick way to get disenfranchised with the industry. I’ve talked to several other owner ops, and we are all successful (at least relatively in our own minds). We all feel industry wide electronic logs could be the best thing to progress the standing of the professional driver in a long time. Perhaps its simply my generational view of technology, but I’ll adapt.

  • Mind Games

    ATA Stop lying!!! You people know the safety departments at all the major carriers have been falsifying the e-logs!!!

    They call it corrections when in reality it is falsifying!!!!

    I hope there are lawyers reading this article and put the owners of these companies in jail together with the safety department mangers and Bill Graves too!!!

    People these Rat Bastards are lying there is no compliance being done but just a huge amount of falsifying!
    If they were so Gung-ho for this BS they would demand that all the information be piped thru the government servers FIRST before being sent to the company for analysis!!!

    You fat ass trucking company owners won’t get away with this as long as I’m above ground and own a pickup truck I can and will throw a billboard in the back and I can and will ride around these lawmakers that you bribed with your lobbying money and expose your llies!!!!

  • shadow hauling

    My insurance is due in a couple weeks and I’ve been debating whether to cancel it and sell or go one more year till this is law. I love driving and and have had my CDL since 78 so it would be hard to give it all up and walk away but the assholes in Washington along with ata are forcing me to give it up. The profits keep going down as expenses and stress keep going up.

  • Joe Ammons

    jojo, don’t believe I mentioned a strike, I am aware of what OOIDA does, I am a LifeMember since 2000.
    What I said was that they don’t always “walk their talk” and I stick by that. Has nothing to do with strikes or work stoppages. I personally think a strike in this day and age would only give trucking another black eye , so to speak.Nor do intend to disparage the good things they do accomplish. They are as politically centered as ATA just on the other end of the spectrum and sometimes it shows in their lack of response and communication with their membership, OOIDA gets set on a “mission” and only an elite few get to have any input.

OverdriveOnline.com strives to maintain an open forum for reader opinions. Click here to read our comment policy.