ELD rule public comments mixed, with renewed focus on hours rule

| April 04, 2014

Night in Nashville, loading dock.In one of the comments on the public docket under the proposed mandate for electronic-logging-device use by interstate motor carriers and drivers, driver and commenter Mark Olsen of Clinton, Utah, echoed the overall mixed positive and negative nature of the comments all told. However, he rejoined arguments in favor of the need for ELDs with a message heard increasingly among Overdrive readers and other industry observers and participants — that the hours of service rules in general are the bigger problem as regards true safety. 

"An ankle bracelet is an andle bracelet," wrote Gordon Alkire in comments under this poll, who prelimary results are above. The poll remains open via this link, where you can likewise read through current commentary or join the discussion.

“An ankle bracelet is an ankle bracelet,” wrote owner-operator Gordon Alkire, reflecting the majority opinion in opposition to ELDs in comments under this poll, whose preliminary results are above. The poll remains open via this link, where you can likewise read through current commentary or join the discussion.

While Olsen said he has used both electronic logs and paper logs, and that electronic logs probably are the better option, if “you want safety on highways,” he added, “remove the 14-hour [window of on-duty time] and you will see a better change in driver compliance.

“As it is now with hours of service — they are not safe at all. This is from real world experience. Drivers now are speeding through work zones and truck stops and speeding where possible due to lack of flexibility. They’re running tired because we can’t stop at all to rest.” 


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More flexible sleeper splits and other hours options have been the subject of long-ongoing discussion by owner-operators and drivers since the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration brought the 14-hour window into play more than a decade ago. With recent news that there has been more congressional attention to FMCSA’s work crafting the changes introduced to the hours of service last year, Overdrive‘s poll question of the week probed the notion that ELDs might be more appealing were the hours rules themselves not so restrictive.


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Reflecting the view of the majority of respondents, however, regular Overdrive commenter Jason Haggard, responding to the question in the new Overdrive’s Trucking Pro LinkedIn group, noted that privacy issues still trump concern over the hours rules when it comes to his opposition to ELDs. A revamp of the hours of service would do nothing, he noted, to address his concern that “24/7 monitoring by force is a violation of certain rights,” he says. “When the EOBR, now ELD, was first brought into discussion it was supposed to be for habitual violators only. Now it has grown into a proposed mandatory device for everyone. Furthermore the FMCSA has continued to state it will make the roads safer and has launched a campaign stating this to the general public. …

“What I see is the government pressing new regulations into service all of the time and then finding out their experiment was wrong from the beginning.”  (See related: GAO’s report on CSA.)


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On the public docket for the rule, commenters thus far have come down on both sides of the issue, with some saying the mandate is a needed safety mechanism and others dismissing the rule as unnecessarily burdensome and as a privacy intrusion.

One anonymous commenter looked on favorably not relative to the safety potential of ELDs but for their potential to spur structural changes in driver pay. The devices, the commenter noted, could force all parties to act responsibly, rather than motivated solely by productivity and “greed:”


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I see what drivers are put through by dispatchers and business owners all in the name of making money. You want to see the real problem? Follow the money! ELDs are just a first step in driver compensation reform. There needs to be a combination of mileage pay and hourly pay for wait time. Businesses need to be held accountable for even asking a driver to violate HOS in order to “get the job done.” If we would all police ourselves, then ELDs won’t make any difference. If we are trying to find a way to cheat, then ELD’s will force those who cheat to think of another way or simply play the game by the rules. 

Commenter Alan Moore of Blackfoot, Ind., said he thinks the agency “may have the rule right this time,” referring to FMCSA’s previous attempts that were vacated in court, most recently in 2011, when a federal court threw out the electronic onboard recorder mandate due to concerns over the devices’ ability to be used to harass drivers. “[The rule] took long enough,” he wrote. “I like the rule. We need something done about the cowboys that are left to run however they please.”


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Likewise, commenter Brock Girling simply wrote, “It’s about time the electronic log became mandatory.”

Others, particularly those who say they’re small carriers or owner-operators, contend that the cost of complying with the rule could force them out of business.

Warren Smith, Gatesville, Texas: Thanks for putting small trucking companies out of business. I am struggling to make payments on trucks and trailers now without the additional expenses of the federal government. I am a two-truck operation, and I work hard at keeping up with all of the compliance regs now. I feel you are going to be hurting this country more than helping it, because having to pass on the cost of this — everyone will suffer. 


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Martin Sulak of Waco, Texas, expressed similar sentiment: I guess what the FMCSA wants is to run the independent drivers/owners out of business! You have so many regs now it’s funny! What we need is a house cleaning in Washington with some people that have some common sense! In the cattle/livestock industry, wait until the consumer asks why they are paying so much more for their beef! When the big truck carriers take over this industry, watch what happens to the prices!

Commenter Sean Adams of St. Joseph, Minn., equates ELDs to a punishment, suggesting mandatory use of the devices be targeted at companies with poor CSA scores. He also said ELD use should be up to carriers, rather than an industry-wide requirement: Drivers don’t like to be watched, just like anyone would not like their boss or supervisor watching and questioning their every move. There are millions of safe drivers out there that are very responsible, and this is an action for the small minority of the bad drivers. If you want to mandate it have it listed that companies with bad [CSA] scores have to have them. Not the companies that are following the rules like they are supposed to. Don’t put the whole class in detention because of one bad grade.

Comments on the mandate can be made online at regulations.gov using the Docket Number FMCSA-2010-0167 or by email at oira_submissions@omb.eop.gov, using the subject line Attention: Desk Officer for FMCSA, DOT. They can also be faxed to 202-395-6566. –Todd Dills and James Jaillet contributed to this report.

  • ACE

    As a fleet owner i agree and disagree with this, I agree that its an invasion in privacy. what if there was a law that stated gps trackers were mandatory in every car or truck, and if you speed you get a ticket in the mail. big violation of the Constitution in my eyes. My drivers use paperlogs they call if they need something or just want to talk. “here’s your pick up and delivery” they get to handle everything else, its much better for everyone if i don’t dictate their every move. no one likes a boss that breathes down their neck why would we want the government doing it?

  • Sedric

    What a fukking joke, Drivers just need to say no.

  • Sasha Renfrow


  • Dave Nichols

    It is my opinion that eld’s or even paperlogs that are followed to the letter will bring (pay) reform in the industry. Drivers will ask for more pay to replace productive hours lost. carriers will demand higher rates for lost productivity of equipement, those who end up paying these higher transport costs will demand more efficiency in the loading and unloading processes.
    It will be a winner for drivers. We will live and work more normal hours. Sleeping at night, working by day. having a couple days off like normal people etc.
    If we can’t make a decent living working 65 or 70 hours week? Come on.

  • Steve LaFleur

    As far as the invasion of privacy statement, there are lots of invasions of our privacy to maintain compliance with the surface transportation act. Electronic logs aren’t the problem. I have been on eLogs for almost 15 years now with a couple of different carriers, and personally …. I love them. It keeps people honest, and no longer are we being told to “make it happen” when we get jerked around with excessive detention time, etc.

    That’s where the reform in this industry needs to happen. Give a shipper/receiver a 2 hour window from a scheduled appointment time to get the truck loaded/unloaded in a timely manner, or pay serious detention time, and pass down the line that the delivery will now be “late* because they took excessively long at the dock.

    The government breathes down our necks, because over fatigued irresponsible operators are still dozing off and crashing into toll booths, etc. So, until that ceases, we are going to be babysat.

    The only people who squeal like stuck pigs are the ones with something to hide, or the others who know the rules aren’t crafted in real time, by people that do this for a living. Yes, if I’m tired, and want to pull over and take a 2 hour nap so I can get home safely, I shouldn’t be penalized because I went over my 14 hours. That’s called good judgement, which the DOT and the lawmakers know nothing about.

    The rules are made because of the people who do NOT exhibit good judgement. We all suffer for it, and that needs to change.

  • jojo

    As they stand, I am against ELD’s as they force the unsafe behavior that the current HOS rules promote.

    I have GPS on my trailer. Because I am being tracked I am Forced to work when tired and Forced to rest when I CAN NOT Rest.

    I witness daily the unsafe behavior of Governed trucks as they RACE the Clock.
    I have backed trucks into spots that the Drivers were unable to do because they were so Rattled by that box counting down the seconds before they would be in violation.

    These Boxes have Created an Unintended Level of DANGER for us ALL !!!!!!!

    If a company wants boxes in THEIR trucks thats up to THEM. I believe any CO OTR Driver that is using one should be paid For All hrs that they are following the direction of their supervisors. They are told to take 10.5hrs of break time, they are told to sit two days before loading or offloading, they are told to wait at shippers and receivers, etc.
    $7.25 X 24hrs = $174.00 a day
    Shouldn’t a Beginner with Zero Experience be making at least this?

    I own my truck and I like my freedom therefore I am unwilling to run illegally. I have to much to lose! I am not a criminal. I am capable of telling time and drawing a line. There are already many ways that I am being tracked.

    The ATA companies are using the Government as a Bulldozer to get their way in the name of safety. This box is not SAFE.

    Three Ways to Send a Message

    1. Inform your carrier and Congressman that you will be taking off at least 3 days during the week of 10/31 thru 11/7.
    2. Register to Vote and then start making calls to your elected officials in DC. Call 202-224-3121 and inform them of your issues.
    3. VOTE. I’m Shutting my truck DOWN 10/31 thru 11/7 TO MAKE SURE THAT MY VOICE IS HEARD!!!

    Why don’t you all Join Me!

    Comments on the ELD rule can be made online at regulations.gov using the Docket Number FMCSA-2010-0167 or by email at oira_submissions@omb.eop.gov, using the subject line Attention: Desk Officer for FMCSA, DOT. They can also be faxed to 202-395-6566.

    We need 100,000 signatures by 4/19 to have ELD’s reviewed by Congress.

    Pat Hockaday

  • root 66

    bottom line,when im tired I pull over,dont matter if its 11 hours or 2 hours that’s the responsible thing to do, you only know what you can and cant do safely

  • Now what?

    I oppose the E log I’m a O/O love my job, i do 55 to 60 mile even in the. 70 or 75 the thing is this, when I log up at the end of the day I be in the same area as the driver that do 65 to 70 miles, it take me longer but I’m cool with that and log up at 65 miles a hour. I’m more alert and comfortable with e log this will be taken away because I’m on the clock and have to push my speed up with take on more energy in awareness and allow my action as a safe drive to be monitor on call invading my comfort zone of being a relax driver.

  • shadow hauling

    I’m not for anymore government regulations or being told by the government or big trucking company’s or the ata or OTHER DRIVERS that I need this or that to make me a safe driver and that if I’m against it I have something to hide. Get a f—ING life driver. I’ve had my CDL-A since 1978 so apparently I don’t need someone (driver) to be told I need these devices to run legally or that it will make me safer. I can’t remember but I do know for a fact that I haven’t had an accident in 29 years and one ticket in that time and it was for window tint ! Those that want me to have this installed want to compare license !! The cost alone for me is a set of tires for the year. Yup, I like hundreds out there are trying to make a living driving pick ups and running the highways like the rest of you. Yes I did drive tractor trailer, how many remember RYDER RANGER or ACE DORAN to name a couple ? This device will not make us any more money because most of use don’t deal with unloading or loading at docks. Most of us are O/O and have only one or two trucks. Yes I run legally and have my own authority, 1,000,000 in liability, 50,000 in cargo, truck DOT inspection once a year and have to run a log and use the scales. The only thing these devices will do is make someone rich selling and servicing them. If you want one go buy it but for damn sake don’t shove it on me !

  • FrustratedPatriot888

    I do not agree that ELD’s will increase safety on the roads. I acknowledge it will possibly eliminate falsified paper logs, but as far as limiting time drivers work, only dealing with shipper/receiver delays and the removed limitations on the 14 hour rule will improve safety. Drivers spend way to much time sitting in docks, and legally logged as on duty, not driving, no pay for this time and then expected to run hard to get the load wherever it goes. The 14 hour rule is too strict, not allowing a tired driver a chance to stop and get some sleep without a “penalty”. My wife and I drive team and the 5/5 split sleeper was beautiful for us and that is also gone for teams. Perhaps what the FMCSA needs is a panel of real drivers who can offer realistic and productive suggestions and feedback on rule proposals. It’s obvious to me the ATA is a puppet for the companies and government. OOIDA is a voice for drivers, but are often overshadowed by the ATA and other organizations supposedly geared toward safety.

  • jojo

    A Driver is to give 2 to 4 hours of their day away so the carrier can profit? Do the dispatchers and other employees of the carrier work for FREE?

    Drivers are and have been tracked for many years now, BUT, They have never been made aware of the extent of this activity! WHY? If they knew the truth, they would not have been gambling with their livelihood and that of their families security.

    The companies allowed this illegal behavior as it posed little risk to the co. compared to the profits these activities made. The Drivers believed that they were working within acceptable boundaries as the companies allowed this behavior to continue.

    Even as e-logs were introduced the companies participated in and allowed illegal acts to continue. Again, the Drivers believed that they were legal.

    I guess that I’m one of your squealing pigs Sir! I assure that I don’t have anything to HIDE!

    Trucking is a diverse industry. There are to many variables to easily consider. The HOS are unrealistic as one shoe does not fit ALL!

    We need the flexibility that We once had with realistic HOS rules that allowed us to get the job done Safely.

    The 14hr rule promotes unsafe but legal behavior.

    I’m already running legal as I can’t afford the consequences of running illegal. So you tell me why I should be happy and proud by allowing the ATA to imply that I’m either a criminal that must be monitored or that I’m to stupid to tell time and draw a line.

    Bet your ASS that the ATA companies are going to profit by forcing these ELD’s and Speed Limiters on the rest of us.

    What happened to being Innocent UNTIL Proven Guilty???????

  • jojo

    I once was caught up in a log audit. DOT lady wanted to fine me $1,121.00 per infraction. I figured that would amount to about $31,000.00.

    I then explained that I spread my day out in a relaxed manner so that I could bed down after dark thirty. By easing along during the day I saved money on fuel and was able to be very safe. I logged as you described.

    I asked her why she thought that all trucks hauling ass, Racing the Clock was SAFE.

    I begged her to Fine Me as this Federal Crime would put a roof over my head with three squares in the Federal Pen.

    She got up and left the room.
    These people don’t care about Safety, They only care about “Letter of the Law”.

    The Law is what the ATA is influencing while We Drivers act like there is nothing we can do.
    My calls to my legislatures count because I have the POWER to Vote. I help decide if they will keep their jobs!

    When I shut my truck down from 10/31 thru 11/7 that will be 1 or 2 loads that may not roll. That sends another message, if only a small one.

    To you and the rest I say let your voices be heard or live with the consequences!

    Pat Hockaday

  • jojo

    OOIDA can only work with the money we members provide. It’s like pennies against dollars yet OOIDA is well respected because of their straight up way of doing business.
    Being a member has saved me way more than I have given back. I am thankful to have OOIDA on our side and would encourage you all to help us out.

  • DAGR

    I look at it as the FMCSA calling all CDL License Holders PROFESSIONALS..There own words. Companies need to get off the mileage pay scale..This is an injustice to fatten the corporate pocket. Drivers are gone at all times and have to face the best and the worst…7.00 Dollars in the sleeper…20.00 Dollars to start while driving behind the wheel…10.00 Dollars an hour sitting at the dock waiting to get loaded, and 10.00 Dollars an hour waiting for a dispatch…The clock stops when you are at home for some time off.

  • http://maddadkeith.smugmug.com/ Keith Birmingham

    There is 1 major reason that drivers hate the thought of ELD”s. Reality shows that in order to make a living driving a truck you have to, in one way or another, break the law by cheating on your logs.

    There is 1 major reason that trucking companies hate the thought of ELD’s. Reality shows that if electronic logs become necessary the drivers will swiftly begin to demand more pay.

    In the case of over-the-road truckers most logs that shows a driver has put in a 10 hour day the driver has been involved with the security and safety of that load for 24 hours. I have never once heard of a driver logging on lines 3 or 4 while they are sitting in a shop lounge on a broken down wooden chair with no human conveniences. Three of the companies that I have worked for started giving me all of the crap loads simply because I told them if they didn’t want me to idle my truck to stay warm in the winter or cool in the summer they would need to pay my motel bills.

    It is apparent to me that truckers are this country’s first line of defense against high prices. It is also apparent to me that if government would stop trying to artificially influence the economy the whole world would be better off.

  • bigred

    I`m tired of hearing that some of these guys say that ELD`s are a good thing…If you are a true O/O and a truck or two this is a disaster to them period. I just sat 6 hours on a dock yesterday Loading, sat 3 hours before that unloading…With the ELD that would have been the end of my day and I actually drove just 30 mins to my pickup in all that time…..I will say this one more time>>>If you are capable of drop/hook and running a driver 300 or so miles to swap a load, ELD~s might work…PERIOD.

  • bigred

    STFU Keith, as you don`t have a dog in this race working as a company driver!!!!!

  • bigred

    See my reply to Keith!!!!

  • http://maddadkeith.smugmug.com/ Keith Birmingham

    I might add that many of today’s drivers are earning a livable wage for one man/woman, but they are putting in the time and effort of at least two men/women to get it. Want safety? Do the right thing. Stop screwing the man/woman that does the work.

  • Steve LaFleur

    You’re incorrect. I *do* have a dog in the race, because I have the opportunity to cheat on paper and make more money just like you do. I made 70K as a driver last year running legal. I could exceed 100K easily if I wanted to cook the books.

    So, take your elitist owner operator/small business attitude and shove it.

  • Ralph

    Hmmm. I believe COMPANY drivers won’t be exempt from this law, so yes, his dog is running in this race. It may not be as big a dog as o/o, but it is there nonetheless.

  • Spence

    Right on !!! I’ve been thinking that way for quite awhile.

  • g

    Yep the Elog is not flexible….if you get behind…you cant fudge. Guys will be RACING to make up for a lost few minutes…..

  • shadow hauling

    I agree and I’m with you JoJo and run legally as I can’t afford not to. All it takes is getting caught once and profit realized would be lost and then your scores are shot. Steve please don’t group all O/O and all small businesses into one group, that’s what FMCSA and DOT do. We are not all the same as big companies or union drivers are not the same. We all need work and to make a living not fight with each other. Let’s leave the fighting up to US (drivers) against FMCSA and dot. We don’t need the split to make it easier for them. If we stand as one we can get through this. Everyone has an opinion and a right to it. So far they haven’t regulated that from is !

  • Jimmy T

    We need to shut up or put up.We should have been getting paid dock time,fueling and inspections long time ago.We could be the most powerful organization around if we we’re not our own worst enemy.

  • Steve LaFleur

    I tend to react to condescending remarks from Owner Ops or small private fleets that since we are company “sheep” …. we don’t have a voice.

    I’ve been in this business a long time and I ran my own rig for 13 years and spent that “off duty, not driving” time laying under a truck fixing something.

    I agree with you. We need to stick together more that ever. The gub’mint is unified as they shove these unrealistic laws down our throats. Taking a 2 hour nap ( on my own time, no compensation ) because I deem my mental state not optimal to drive shouldn’t be a punishment – it should be embraced by the general public. Running 30 hours straight is another story. That’s where the EOBR comes into play

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  • Guest

    The 14 hour clock is unsafe and Dangerous. EOBRS are not the problem. When you put a clock over someone’s head human nature will take over. This job requires no restriction on time which diminishes safety.

  • Wendell

    Write your congressmen and tell hem you don’t like the ELD mandate. You never know it may do more good than you think.

  • brad

    Eld’s in my opinon for a single truck operation is a waste of my money and really no way to charge for it.The two one to five am restart provision has cost me money.I could have satisfied the thirty four hours but not the two one to five’s and left from my home and been back at the warehouse at five am on Monday to get loaded.To all the retards in charge please keep it up.All your doing is driving good people from the industry.Tell me who wants to sit behind a steering wheel with a video camera pointed at your face and a computer in the passenger seat telling you when your every move should be for thirty five cents a mile.All big companies will need to recruit from other countries to fill the seats which is what they are doing now.I am a third generation owner operator and I love this because of the freedom to do it my way and it is slowly slipping away.Thanks fmcsa for being stupid.

  • MarsRiver

    Just a bit curious here, but doesn’t this look quite similar to the Affordable Care Act ( Obamacare ) another government forced product buy? Force the masses to do at the behest of a few when a far more reasonable and less costly way is obviously available. Can someone point out what the REAL objective is? I know we continue to be told “safety”. The numbers don’t bear that out. Will one of the upper echelon be brave enough to come forward and talk reality on this issue ( not Anne Ferro ) or do we just continue to recede under this current body. 17+ trillion in debt and we are letting them tell us the best way to run this operation? Wow, if my house ran that way I’d be on the government dole, too! Hmmm, maybe I just hit on something there.

  • CJ Powell

    That’s trucking! Its called DOT trucking, not, how I feel I should be DRIVING! If u don’t want to follow the DOT rules, McDonalds has went up to 10 bucks/hr. Just stop trucking and find something else to do! If not, stop crying, adapt and overcome! Truckers always try to act so macho, but at every turn whine about everything! I don’t see no one jumping out of the seat. Everytime they revise HOS rules, we keep driving. So shut up, and make that money for you and your family. I don’t, and won’t drive illegal for any company. They didn’t fight DOT on behalf of the drivers, because they didn’t care about anything except making money. Therefore I refuse to drive illegal because after all, ITS THE LAW! I refused to drive illegal at many companies in my 20+ years, and never have I lost a job behind it.

  • Eagle57

    It seems to me that the only people who benefit from these devices are lawyers and police departments who “get” money from “violations” and the people who are selling them. Safety is always the issue that is marched out front and center as the “primary reason” for these regulations. Yet we all know that you can legally work all day at home, cutting grass, trimming hedges, painting, ect. during your 34 hour restart, get into a big rig and have 11 hours of drive time and 14 hours of on-duty time. You can also spend your 10 hours in your sleeper berth watching tv, connecting on facebook, talking on your phone, reading books, playing video games, not sleep at all or very little, and have another 11 hours of drive time and 14 hours of on-duty time available. Does that make the driving public any safer? The driver followed “the rules”! Furthermore, how about when the FCMSA decides that they are going to waive the hours of service rules for delivery of emergency declaration items? The ELD matters not a whit in those cases, do they?
    The true key to safety is rest. It is unfortunate with all the advances that we have made in technology that we have not focused more on understanding when a person is becoming fatigued, no matter what the job is. Furthermore, we know that not everyone needs the same amount of sleep before they are “rested.” The reality is that a great deal of potential productive time is lost because of “one size fits all” thinking. In my opinion, an ELD does not enhance productivity, it restricts it, and that costs all of us, drivers, companies and consumers.

  • nub

    Eld’s are no good to the fact of the government telling us once more what we can and cant do. Those people have know idea what its like out there doing the jobs we do. I will shut my doors and sell my trucks for sure if this goes through.

  • Judy Buckner

    Before I was in Trucking I owned hair salons the board of professionals that inspected and made all the rules were actually hair designers not a board of people who thought they looked good. I don’t understand anyone sticking their nose in something they know NOTHING about and the rest of us fools following!! People think hair is just about cutting and styling they forget about the dangerous chemicals that are in salons. Only an idiot would stick their hands in something they know NOTHING about! And only a fool would let that same person apply it to them!!

  • hotdog

    I predict that within six months of mandated ELD’s there will be several “hack/crack/warez” available on the internet or sold out of a dirty van at a truck stop like ALK’s $1500 PC Miler program is. You will be able to download the program and modify ELD data at will. This govt intrusion will likely only make them and the rest of the sheep feel better. Plus most DOT officers that I have run across ain’t the sharpest tools in the shed anyhow. It goes like this: DOT Officer- “Driver where’s your ELD?”……Driver- “I hit a bump this morning and it quit working”

  • R. Mahon

    Driver, where is your paper log, required to be on the truck for times your ELD malfunctions and required supporting documents?

  • Thomas Duncan

    As far as the stupid comment about”COWBOYS”,let me tell you something you ignorant sob….Us so called “COWBOYS” because we comply to no one and are more experienced and accident free than many of the others out here.There are only a few real truckers left now because of all this unconstitutional control forced on us.This”Cowboy” has more time on the road than you will ever achieve and rebuilds his own trucks and really knows his equipment and how to get the job done and done safely.THIS CRAP MAKES TRUE TRUCKERS SICK!!!!and you would not make a pimple on a real truckers ass!

  • jojo

    If governed by the clock Why not paid by the clock?
    Cheap freight relies on cheap labor. Until the corp’s can no longer dictate that the Co OTR Drivers Wages are way less than minimum wage, Freight rates will remain stagnant!
    $7.25 X 24hrs = $174.00
    $174.00 X 300 days = $52,200.00
    Isn’t this At least what the New Driver with Zero Experience should be earning.
    Pat Hockaday jojo859585@gmail.com

  • Tyler Edwards

    This is for Those of you That complain About driver Pay! Go buy a Truck and be the Boss! Then you can discuss pay with yourself and stop being mad at the world. you made the choice now sleep with it.

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